Bush authorized NSA to spy on Americans

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Dateline 1944: Using lists of addresses found in high ranking Nazi officers' quarters, the FBI is watching for spies among us...

Do you guys SERIOUSLY think the above story would have ran?

Our press are NOT our friends. Here's the deal - our guys nab a terrorist. He's got a cell phone. They look to see who he's been talking to. They watch 'em. They listen to 'em. They see who they're talking to, and look for patterns.

I do not have problem #1 with that. No Such Agency has the best tools for the job - they're the best in the world with sigint. I do not have problem #1 with using them.

Maybe some of you think that we should take all the info, and give it to some lawyer somewhere to sit on for a year or so while determining whether it should be used... I suggest that you should either move to Iran or to California.
 
This whole story is pretty silly from one point of view -- do you people really think that the massive NSA apparatus has ever made a distinction between 'domestic' and 'non-domestic' intercepts? Of course not -- they listen to everything. This has been going on for years.

The fourth amendment died a long time ago; Didn't you get the memo?

But what is NOT silly about this story is the arrogance displayed by the Bush administration. It was absolutely NOT necessary for them to do this in this way. The FISA process has almost always (only one reported denial in almost 30 years) given the various administrations everything they wanted. There just was no need to do it this way, except hubris.

Come on George, at least PRETEND that you care about the Constitution and our civil liberties.
 
TheEgg said:
Come on George, at least PRETEND that you care about the Constitution and our civil liberties.
Click to expand...

Your life and national security rises higher in priority than your civil liberties; the president recognizes that and acts accordingly...
 
Camp David, you're shtick of lampooning fascism through satire is so wonderfully done.

Do you take requests?

Quick!

Do Bill O'Reilly! Use the word "bloviate" a lot!
 
My take on this

While monitoring of U.S. citizens has been going on for a while, "they" have been more open about it lately because a lot of people will buy into it as a price needed to pay for greater security. The old "well, it's not me" complex. However, the media is a double edged sword. Even as we are experiencing more intrusions into our lives, more people are becoming aware of it. There is a minor awakening happening among those willing to listen and I see a change coming. Not soon, but inevitable and big. Give it a few years and we'll see either a return to strict constitutionalism or collapse. I'm betting on the former.
 
Well, just remember to vote for Anyone But A Republican in the next election, and see what we get... Hillary and Chuckie?

This was a lose-lose call... If he _didn't_ authorize the high-tech wiretaps, and something nasty happened, what would you be screaming about right now? As it was, he did. And folks are getting bent out of shape about it.

Guys, you've got two scenarios...

A few folks get listened to because they called someone who called someone who called someone who called a dead terrorist.

A few thousand, or even a few hundred thousand, folks get dead, because our politicians were more concerned about politics than about results.

Guys, we're at war here. It's been going on for quite a while.
 
Guys, we're at war here. It's been going on for quite a while.
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Yeah, but who are we at war with?:D

Listen, I voted for Bush twice. But I just can't figure out what is going on here.

Bush had a perfectly good, legal method of obtaining any warrants he needed to conduct whatever taps were needed -- go to the FISA court.

I have yet to hear a coherent explanation of why this was not done. When asked directly, people like Rice and Cheney, hem and haw around and imply that we couldn't get the warrants fast enough. Horse-hockey -- there is a provision in the law that lets the taps be done and then you can go to the FISA court a couple of weeks later to get a warrant, if the urgency is that great.

So why didn't the Bush administration follow this procedure? Maybe there is a perfectly good explanation, but everything they have laid out there so far is so much hot air. If there is some sort of massive procedural problem, how about going to congress to get the law changed to address the problem? Or would that be too much like following the constitution?

I really don't want a precedent set here -- how are you all going to feel when President Hillary tells us that she authorized thousands of taps on all those gun nuts out there without a warrant "for security reasons"?
 
Get a warrant? How long will that take? I want the info from a captured enemy communication device in the system NOW. Not after you have to go wake up a judge, fax stuff back and forth, etc., etc... 10-15 minutes COULD make a difference. There's time later to figure out what's needed and what isn't... If a telemarketer called Abduhl (spelling correct...), life could get interesting for a little while, but it'd be figured out fast.

Make a choice: Should Abduhl and his cronies get to chat over their plans with impunity?

As for being at war? There've been a LOT of attacks on US personnel... Most people just generally didn't notice it until they flew improvised cruise missiles into the World Trade Center...

Guys, a lot of you know me. There've been a LOT of folks show up on pro-2nd internet forums since the elections. And the primary theme seems to be "anyone but a Republican." It'd be really convenient if another Perot puts a gun control fanatic in the White House, right?
 
C'mon Bogie, you didn't read my masterfully composed post? Shame on you.;)

I repeat -- under existing law, if the situation is that urgent, it is OK to go ahead and implement the tap, then, when time allows, go to the court for the warrant. Thus the situation you outline would not be a reason for by-passing FISA.

Again, why didn't the Bush administration do it this way? Still waiting for an answer.
 
There are people out there plotting to contaminate/poison our food/drinking water, distribute radioactive/biological materials in our population centers, and all sorts of other diabloical schemes that I cant even begin to imagine.

Its time to stop playing politics with my families safety.

And to everyone who loves to quote Ben Franklin, here is a wake up call - this isnt the musket, saber & cannon age anymore.

We are dealing with threats that were unimaginable to our forefathers.
 
I voted for him ....I gave the max money donations for him in the 2004 election.
He should be impeached.

You dont turn this country into a police state to protect "the People" (even if that still matters)
find another way......Sometime tells me.....I'm sure he cold have found a court on his side for the paperwork.


Puppy I disagree THAT same logic will be used on us to phase out the 2nd Amendment.......its so 17th century.:barf: And the Rest of the Bill of Rights

Freedom from an over powering Govt is NOT a yesteryear problem.
Franklin, Henry, and the rest knew throught history how the common man was treated by "their" Govt.



"Its time to stop playing politics with my families safety." I could stay the same to YOU stop feeding the Govt's need to overtake everything in MY and my families lives. Stop adding to the problem...start becoming more self-sufficient. Grow a back bone. Stop being lazy and giving all of the responsibiliy of your life to others in the Govt!!!!!!!:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
 
xd9fan said:
I voted for him ....I gave the max money donations for him in the 2004 election. He should be impeached...
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xd9fan: the post just previous to yours by Puppy has a good quote:

"There are people out there plotting to contaminate/poison our food/drinking water, distribute radioactive/biological materials in our population centers, and all sorts of other diabloical schemes that I cant even begin to imagine."

You should be worried about that rather than imagined outrage over a non-issue.
 
A "non-issue"? To some of us, it's a MAJOR issue! Liberties are the basis for what makes this country, and what makes this country GREAT! If you don't mind them being stepped on for your own safety, then you are definately the type of person I don't want speaking for ME. Alive or dead!

Tom
 
Yes he did!! I prove it that he "saved" my Bacon!!!
that I'm still alive????? By that logic you can go very very far to advance your "I know whats better for you than you do" attitude!!!! careful here you might turn into a liberal

Once again Camp David: "Hail YOU"
 
Camp David said:
He did not. BUT HE DID SAVE YOUR BACON! I just love your appreciation~!
Click to expand...

I'd rather die than live in the America he is currently shaping. The position can change with some of the people in power remembering that liberties aren't a sometime thing.

Tom
 
Tomcat1066 said:
I'd rather die than live in the America he is currently shaping.
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That's what Howard Dean keepings saying... I just wish he'd act on his convictions! :rolleyes:
 
That's very noble of you Tomcat.

But I see nothing in the whole NSA story that effects my, my families or my fellow countrymen's personal liberties at all.

What I do see in the NSA story is that Al-Queda's ability to communicate secretly with each other using modern telecommunications has been compromised.
 
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