Bushmaster AR-15???

[M&PVolk]

I found a Bushmaster M4 A3 carbine with 16" barrel marked LE only for sale, and I am very interested. It seems solidly built and I have talked to a few people who say they are good rifles, but I don't know much about them and reviews seem rather rare online.

Is this a good AR? What kind of accuracy might I expect with this, as I plan on hunting coyotes with it? What would a good scope be?

 

[FrankRochester]

You can find better rifles for the same or a slightly higher price. Go with a LMT. Buy the rifle in separate pieces to avoid the excise tax on complete rifles. Get your two boxes, take out the upper and lower and put them together and off you go! You can do this for about $1,100. They probably want like $900 to 1k for that Bushmaster. The LMT will smoke that Bushmaster.

 

[Bartkowski]

This probably won't be easy with the amount of AR's being sold now, but you could wait and look for a deal on a better gun.

Or you could just try to work the price of the gun you are looking at down. Offer $100 or so less than what they are asking for. If they say no, they say no, you are still in the same place you started.

As far as accuracy goes expect 2MOA or better at 100 yards. This is plenty accurate for coyote out to 250 yards or so. Mind you that was an estimate and you might get much better results with quality ammo that your rifle likes.

You might want to look out for a longer barreled gun if you just want to coyote hunt though. The extra velocity will help at longer ranges.

 

[SpeedAKL]

For coyote hunting, check their varminter and predator lines. They'll serve your purpose better.

 

[atlanticfire]

I agree with Frank. But then again I'm not a fan of bushmasters.

 

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

The B.M. Varmiter is a great rifle after you put a good trigger in it.

 

[FlyinBryan]

you wont find a better ar for the money.

lots of guys saying hold out for better with absolutly nothing to back it up.


if you can find absolute reliability, and sub moa accuracy for less, then get it.

and heres what i back that up with

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=392277


ps. i handload and shoot A LOT.

5000plus rounds and never one single hiccup of any kind, period.

 

[Timradcliffe345]

you wont find a better ar for the money.

lots of guys saying hold out for better with absolutly nothing to back it up.

Flyinbryan, with all due respect, but you are completely wrong. The OP can do ALOT better going with something else.

OP: Since you're looking for a M4 style weapon, take a look at this chart courtesy rob_s, a member here:




Best bang for the buck would be a LMT lower/upper purchased separately or a Charles Daly M4LE. The S&W is not a bad choice either. Stay away from RRA and Bushmaster.

 

[FlyinBryan]

ya, ive seen the chart before, its worthless .

do the things on the chart address issues concerning accuracy and reliability?

if so, my "chart" has pics.

 

[M&PVolk]

Flyin...those groups are awesome. I would be thrilled with that. I know the short carbine is not the best config for coyotes, but heavy barrel configs just don't work for me on the AR. If I was going a heavy barrel, I would just go for a bolt action and get real accuracy.

The AR is going to be a multi-use firearm for me, and after looking at your groups, I'm sure a little practice and the appropriate ammo will net me some coyotes out to 300 yards.

It looks like the Bushmaster is weak on the chart, but I'm not sure how that translates into being a good rifle or not???

 

[Timradcliffe345]

Reliability can directly be inferred from the chart. As to accuracy, it will vary randomly among the different rifles. Personally, reliability trumps accuracy - all the rifles in the chart will be plenty accurate at combat ranges. However, all the rifles in the chart WILL NOT be reliable in combat conditions. Take 10 of your run of the mill Bushmaster M4s and run it hard against 10 Colt 6920s in a 3k/day carbine course and you will have your answer. Personally, I want a combat proven firearm as I run it hard; others barely put 500 rds through theirs in any given year and their lives are not on the line. You get what you pay for and you cannot ignore the features on the chart - they're there for a reason. Enuff said.

M&PWolk: The Bushmaster is weak compared to the other rifles on the chart for a reason. Do yourself a favor and buy quality.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Enuff said

agreed

 

[FlyinBryan]

pm returned

 

[Fig]

There is nothing wrong with Bushmaster. Bushmaster makes a great rifle. I would stake my life on mine (texas carbine).

There are too many people on the internet thinking that the end of the world is coming and they need a carbine that can shoot 10k rounds without ever cleaning it for the in coming zombie invasion of 2012. This makes me seriously laugh.

I hate to say it, but if you get into a 1,000k round gunfight in the United States, worrying if the rifle you bought will last or not is probably that last thing you should worry about.

Like Bushmaster rifles are make out of papier mache. Sure, you got to restake the gas key (big deal), I always have a spare bolt anyhow.

 

[FrankRochester]

you guys need to do more research....

 

[ugaarguy]

There are a few brands that offer some more expensive features than Bushmaster for the same price. Most shooters will never notice though. Normally I'd recommend buying one of the other brands simply on the principle of getting more for the same money. Right now, however, I'd recommend buying whatever AR-15 you can get your hands on. I work for an FFL and I've seen what the distributors had on hand Friday - lots of zeros on their AR-15 inventories. Buy whatever you can get, shoot it, and upgrade if you need too.

 

[burk]

Can a "LE Only" gun be transfered to a civilian? I know the 14" bbls. can't. What made the gun LE only? I use to work in police supply and we had to have a signed letter on police stationary from a legitimate authority to transfer an LE only piece to a officer with ID.

 

[FlyinBryan]

you guys need to do more research....

ok, but im gonna do it with my rifle cuz i cant find the charging handle on my computer.

 

[Kino74]

I'm with Flyinbryn on this one. Why is it there is no performance category listed?

How can a chart value taper pins and not performance? Why is MOA is not listed yet parkerizing under front size base (which will never see light of day unless you want to spend money on a non TDP shaved front sight) is?

This reminds me of ARFCOM where one guy wanted advice on what to tell his Colt owning buddy who got outclassed at the range by him using a Stag Arms rifle. Insult to injury, he paid $600 more for the same rifle over the Stag. But hey that Colt has more "features" its just that accuracy and performance were not those features included.

 

[shadowalker]

he paid $600 more for the same rifle over the Stag

Not completely true, Stag makes a good rifle but it is not the same as a Colt. All AR-15's are not created equal which is what the chart is meant to illustrate. Different manufacturers use different quality of parts and some cut corners that most the time wont be noticed.

The things on the chart contribute to a reliable gun.

A lot of people don't like the chart because their rifle doesn't look good on it, and participate in post purchase rationalization (a bias where a person insists their choice is the best possible and ignores evidence to the contrary).

Can you get by without 1:7 twist, 4150 steel, MPI inspected barrel and bolt, improperly staked gas key? You might be able to, but why when you can get all those things for the same amount money.

Why is MOA is not listed

Because it can't be guaranteed, variances in barrel manufacturing or even different barrel manufacturers may be used. Even on the DPMS LR-308 (a notoriously accurate rifle, mine is ~ .6 to .7 MOA) DPMS states they can make no guarantee of accuracy.

A fighting rifle's job is to be as reliable as possible while maintaining an acceptable level of accuracy. Some of the things like chrome lining may give up some accuracy but increase reliability.

ya, ive seen the chart before, its worthless .

Absolutely untrue, for almost the same money the M&P is a much better rifle than Bushmaster. If you can affordthe LMT is a very nice rifle, you can buy it as an upper and lower and spread the cost out. You can also get a BCM upper (bravo company usa) upper which is essentially the same as LMT but with taper pins for a little less.

Like Frank said some members need to do some more research.

 

[TonyDedo]

M&PVolk, it all depends on how much they're asking. The Bushmaster is an 'okay' rifle. It's not top of the line, but it's not a POS either. It all depends on how it's priced; I wouldn't pay much more than $800 for it, but if you get it for less than that, it's a good deal.

Accuracy, you can easily expect 2MOA with optics, and 4MOA without.

I can't really comment on optics, as I'm more of an iron sights guy myself

And regarding the "LE ONLY," that just means it was manufactured during the ban years. It doesn't mean anything now, unless you live in a ban state like MA.

If they're asking more than $800, I'd pass and just build your own. It's easy to do, can be done for under $700, and you can built it to exactly your specifications. If you're looking to hunt coyotes, I'd suggest a longer varmint barrel and a nice ACE skeleton stock.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Absolutely untrue, for almost the same money the M&P is a much better rifle than Bushmaster. If you can affordthe LMT is a very nice rifle, you can buy it as an upper and lower and spread the cost out. You can also get a BCM upper (bravo company usa) upper which is essentially the same as LMT but with taper pins for a little less.

i cant speak for the lewis machine rifles as ive never had immediate experience around one (but im sure they are fine rifles.)

i can only speak from experience with the ones ive owned. colt and bushmaster.

out of those two the bushmaster is superior in every category i care about.

accuracy, reliability, and fit and finish.

my colt came with an accuwedge to keep the upper and lower tight. without it it was far looser than my bushmaster, which doesnt use or need one.

my bushmaster is quite a bit more accurate even though the colt was a model 6700c national match target rifle. (about 1.5" vs. half that size at 100yds)

and perfect as far as reliability goes.

this was the closest category because the colt was pretty reliable, maybe 5 failures in 5k-6k rounds. but 5 to zero is 5 to zero.

i would fold to the suggestion that maybe i just got a daisy from a pile of lemons if it werent for the fact that my brother got one just like mine with the same results, then another buddy got one just like ours except he got the a3 model with the same results, then another friend got their orcm4 with the exact same results. (my son is buying one next)

this is all just first hand experience, and not from any research ive done on the chart or the web or anywhere else but in the field.

the only other experience ive had with others was a guy at the range back in the summer with an m&p.

it shot circles around our groups (2-3" circles) maybe he just couldnt shoot or it was new or whatever, i dont know anything about him.

im sure the others on the chart are great but for me results are the final word. period. sorry if my opinions and results are different from others, bryan.

 

[bkb0000]

ok.. you bought a bushmaster, havent had any problems with it, have managed some somewhat decent groups with it, so you like yours. that doesn't mean bushmaster makes "good guns."

They don't do any fault checking in any of the critical parts, they use inferior bolts, sub-milspec barrel steel, they don't properly torque or steak their carrier keys or castle nuts, they use an inferior extractor insert and spring, they don't use FA carriers or H buffers or 1/7 twists even though they're chambered 556, they don't have enough faith in their own product to offer a respectable warranty. These are all reliability issues- and the reason so much attention is paid to these things is because these areas DO cause failures with this rifle platform- bushmaster leaves the door wide open for any number of failures.

Futhermore, they don't use correct FSBs, which effects accuracy from iron sights, and they don't use milspec receiver extentions, so you have to spend that much more to get a decent stock on the thing.

So why would you spend the same money on a gun that's this way when you can spend a hunna dolla more for something that covers almost all, if not all, of these issues?

that's why I say don't buy bushmaster. maybe yours suits you, but they're not a good buy in general.

 

[mauiglide]

People will bash Bushmaster and I just say "whatever". I've owned my Bushmaster for over a year now (Modular Carbine) and never had any issues with it. Put a few thousand rounds through it and it is accurate if I do my part. In fact, the Bushmaster is my mid range precision shooter with a Leupold Mark 4 scope. I've had no issues with the gas key not being staked correctly and I've got a couple spare LMT BCG from BravoCompanyUSA just because (I doubt I'll ever need to use them).

I will agree that Bushmaster may not be "high end" or "top tier" but for the money, Bushmaster will give you good quality service and performance.

 

[Geno]

I can simply say that I have owned Bushmasters and Colts. Both have been fully reliable. The one Bushmaster that I sold a fellow THR member is out and running flawlessly in 3-gun competitions. There's gotta be something right with that Bushmaster carbine.