C&R or New 308

[unlimited4x4]

I really would like a K98 or FR8, but struggle with the idea of not being able to use 308 win because they were made for 7.62 NATO. Can these rifles be re barreled? I know I could get a newer savage, Remington,etc., but I really like the look and history of the older rifles as well as the ability to load with stripper clips. This will be a paper puncher for now, but may be used to hunt if needed. I've read endless post about those saying 308 win can or cannot be fired from these rifles and pressure differences between the rounds.Most post say the large ring Mauser actions are capable of firing 308 win. I just want to be safe.

Are there any K98 or FR8 rifles or other similar that can fire both 308 win and NATO rounds?

 

[GBExpat]

K98 is normally chambered for 7.92x57, not 7.62x51NATO.

 

[DougW]

4X4, you can rebarrel anything. You will destroy any historic value a K98 or FR8 would have, and you are not really gaining anything. 8mm Mauser ammo is plentiful, and you can reload lower powered loads for an FR8. But, it is your call.

The Isralies converted some Mausers to .308, but that was because the barrels were worn and they were then using FAL's as their battle rifle. You might get lucky and find one.

 

[dogmush]

I would shoot 147(ish) gr .308 out of an FR8 all day long. Not going to hurt it.

The biggest difference between the two rounds are the case sizes (and that'snot a very big difference). If the bolt will close easily, you are good to go with commercial .308 ammo.

 

[mgmorden]

If you want to hunt - get a modern .308. You can hunt with a milsurp (I've taken my Mosin Nagant out a few times), but it's not a particularly enjoyable experience (at least for me).

If you want a historical experience - get the Mauser and keep it bone stock.

Personally, just me personally, I went through a phase where I got really into milsurps but kind of lost interest after a while. I've still got half-a-dozen original ones but I've been slowly selling them off in recent years to help fund more practical guns.

Milsurps ARE getting rarer and rarer though - prices keep going up. If you want one I'd say get one now. There will always be cheap budget oriented bolt guns but the Mausers, Mosins, etc have a finite supply. Once they're all gone the price will keep going up.

 

[iiranger]

HECK!!! The last of the SMLE (Brit) for competition as I understand and a ton of 93 Mausers were rebarreled to .308. And, yes, the story goes that someone did a whole herd of 98's to .308 for the new state of Israel... Militia use. If you look you can find a mil surlp that shoots all the .308 you care to. And it will be something of a collector too.

DeHasse had a standard and who am I to argue. Mausers made before 1925, 1930, etc. should not be subjected to the more modern standard of 55K CUP pressures. (Like .308 and .243). Stick to earlier cartridges with a lower standard. 45K CUP, like '06, .257, .250/.300 Savage, 7x57, etc. The '93's *I mention were last of Spanish production in the 1930s and tested the White labs to be "able" to handle the .308 mil loads. Don't get nuts, but then if you want to shoot and collect your "tool" is out there. You just have to find it. I got a barrled action in .308 from Navy Arms decades ago. Almost free by todays prices. Fit into a give away Swede stock with out too much hassle. Luck. Happy New Year. Happy Trails.

 

[Robert]

not being able to use 308 win because they were made for 7.62 NATO

For all intents and purposes they are the same thing.

If you want a K98 in 308 look for an Israeli version. But honestly what it would take to bring a milsurp up to the levels of a modern hunting rifle, you might as well buy a modern rifle. It would be less expensive in the long run.

 

[unlimited4x4]

Thanks for all the input. I can't dispute many of the points made and a modern rifle would probably suit me best. I guess maybe I'll think about getting both. The Isreali Mauser is one I've read about and would like to find.

 

[joem1945]

8mm is a good hunting round or paper puncher if you like. The really cheap mil surplus is gone but reloading can cut the price if you want to go that route. I shoot a tom of 8mm and reload for it. If you decide to reload, buy supplies in bulk, primers, powder and bullets.

 

[mrh477]

Any of the cartridges old mausers were designed for (7x57, 6.5x55, 8mm) are more than adequate for hunting most game. If you like the experience of having and using an old military rifle then why not just get one in one of the original calibers? Ammo is a bit harder to find and a little more expensive but not by much. I buy 7x57 for about the same price as .308 and it's far more enjoyable to shoot anyway (less recoil). Plus the old cartridges add to the experience for me because there's so much history behind them.

 

[Gottahaveone]

I would shoot 147(ish) gr .308 out of an FR8 all day long. Not going to hurt it.

And...we have a winner

I bought an FR-8 in excellent condition a number of years ago. It is one of my all time favorite mil-surp's. After far more digging than I will bore you folks with, I came to that same conclusion. I would not hesitate to run reasonable factory 150gr stuff thru it. YMMV.....

 

[tark]

iiranger, the "06" you refer to in your post, is the 30-06, I assume? It operates at a hell of a lot more pressure than 45,000 CUP. SAAMI pressures for the 06 are 60,000 PSI. The 308 is 62,000 and the 7mm Rem Mag is 62,000. For comparison, those three are listed in PSI, which is slightly different from C.U.P. As you can see they are very close. BTW the 220 Swift is listed at 56,000PSI.

 

[Sunray]

The last of the SMLE were indeed made for 7.62 using new materials vs conversions. In India. Brits made sniper rifles out of No. 4 Mk I* Lee-Enfields too.
"...someone did a whole herd of 98's to .308 for the new state of Israel..." That was FN. New made, not conversions, after 1948 Mind you, Israel also, um, acquired surplus K98's from all over Europe and purchased from the Czechs.
"...idea of not being able to use 308 Win because..." Is internet nonsense. Literally millions of rounds of commercial .308 Win hunting ammo has been fired and reloaded for Israeli Mausers(and every other 7.62NATO rifle) with no fuss.
"...I could get a newer..." Yep, but commercial hunting rifles are as boring as boring gets. Ain't nothing like a milsurp.

 

[Merle1]

8mm is a good hunting round or paper puncher if you like. The really cheap mil surplus is gone but reloading can cut the price if you want to go that route. I shoot a tom of 8mm and reload for it. If you decide to reload, buy supplies in bulk, primers, powder and bullets.

The european spec 8x57 is considerably more powerful tha US made ammo. My Yugo M24/47 likes Prvi Partizan the best.

 

[Merle1]

Additional thought about rebarreling: the action strength will not be improved by a new, stronger barrel. That will still be your limiting factor.

 

[Ernest T]

If you want a milsurp that will shoot 308, look for an Enfield modified Ishapore rifle. The Indians re-barreled them to shoot 308, and they are a sweet little bolt action rifle. The Ishapore is short enough to make a decent hunting rifle.



Another more expensive option is to get a CMP M1 Garand Special that is re-barreled in 308. These rifles come with new barrels and new stocks, but you still get a WWII era receiver and that "old school look".

 

[Ditchtiger]

If you want a milsurp that will shoot 308, look for an Enfield modified Ishapore rifle. The Indians re-barreled them to shoot 308, and they are a sweet little bolt action rifle. The Ishapore is short enough to make a decent hunting rifle.

You sure about that?
The Ishapore 2A and 2A1 rifles are often incorrectly described as ".308 conversions." In fact, the 2A/2A1 rifles are not conversions of .303 calibre SMLE Mk III* rifles: they were designed and built right from the outset to fire 7.62mm NATO ammunition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishapore_2A1_rifle
They are good shooters, I have several.

 

[Ernest T]

You sure about that?
The Ishapore 2A and 2A1 rifles are often incorrectly described as ".308 conversions." In fact, the 2A/2A1 rifles are not conversions of .303 calibre SMLE Mk III* rifles: they were designed and built right from the outset to fire 7.62mm NATO ammunition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishapore_2A1_rifle
They are good shooters, I have several.

I noted in my post that they were re-barreled. I didn't use the word "conversion". They were modified Enfield SMLE Mk IIIs. The modification came by replacing the barrel.

 

[unlimited4x4]

Ernest, if I could A) find a 308 Garand and B) afford it, it would be in the safe. I've wanted one for some time, but at the moment they are usually out of my price range. I will also look out for an Ishapore.

 

[GBExpat]

I noted in my post that they were re-barreled. I didn't use the word "conversion". They were modified Enfield SMLE Mk IIIs. The modification came by replacing the barrel.

That is incorrect, Ernest T.

The 2A & 2A1 rifles were designed & built specifically for the 7.62, they are not rebarreled SMLEs.

 

[Ernest T]

The 2A & 2A1 rifles were designed & built specifically for the 7.62, they are not rebarreled SMLEs.

You are right I didn't want to mislead anyone, but its my understanding that they were building 303 Enfields in that factory before they switched to the 308 rifles. I know that they upgraded the metal for the 308 round including the barrel, receiver, etc., but I think they still used some parts from the original Enfields like barrel bands, etc. on the new rifles. If you lay them side by side most people couldn't tell a difference. So the basic design followed the original Enfield, but used upgraded the parts to handle the more powerful round. Does this sound right?

 

[GBExpat]

... So the basic design followed the original Enfield, but used upgraded the parts to handle the more powerful round. Does this sound right?

Ab-so-lute-ly!

I bought two of the 2As when they became available at several distributors about 10 years ago.

The bores on mine looked & gauged as new.

After I removed the crappy black enamel paint that had been roughly slathered on them as (probably) a crude preservative, they looked almost as good as they shot.

 

[I6turbo]

OP,

If you decide that the old milsurps or re-barreling isn't the way you want to go, another middle ground option might be to buy a modern gun that's still built like some of the old milsurps. I make this suggestion assuming you don't already own this type of gun.

I have an old Mauser (24/47) and my brother has a K98. I also have a couple of CZ 550s. The actions on guns like the 550 and the Winchester Model 70 are very similar in style and feel to the old Mausers but more modern and more accurate. The full stock models also lend an old-school type of feel, so there's that as well. Cycling the action on the 550 and the Mauser it's clear that there is a direct lineage. If that feel-in-hand is part of what you're looking for, you might like them a lot like I do.

Here's the .308 550. True Mauser action, old-school build quality, excellent trigger and accuracy. Best of both worlds.

 

[GBExpat]

Here is another option for a factory-new .308:

http://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result?q=xs7

Google the reviews ... they are surprisingly good ... especially for a rifle that you can buy for only $250.

O'course, you have to glass it.

 

[unlimited4x4]

never really considered the Marlin, just not a name that pops into my mind when I think of bolt action rifles in this caliber. I have to read up on it. Im considering all options. I do think the C&R rifle is not the way for me to go at the moment.