Can you find .22lr?

[doubleh]

A couple of the gunshops in the area usually have a little. I'm not paying anyone $10 for 50 rounds of what used to be cheap stuff. Federal bulk packs at $69.95 fall in the same catagory. Wally World hasn't had anything for over two years.

 

[Onmilo]

There used to be good supplies of imported .22 ammo that just isn't there anymore so the ammunition suppliers running at full production argument is moot.
Something else is going on here.

 

[huntsman]

Went to local WM on Sat, still no .22lr of any kind. It's been years (09) since I've walked up to the counter and bought .22lr there, say what you will about hoarders and spotty supply but this has become surreal.

 

[DevsAdvocate]

A couple of months ago, the Cabela's in Buda, TX had a fair amount - one entire endcap in the ammo section - for "reasonable" prices. (About $18 for 325 rounds of Federal). So I thought the supply was FINALLY getting back to normal.

Not so.

I've been to Cabela's twice since, and neither time have they had any rimfire other than .17 or .22Mag.

Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

Talked to a salesman, and same old story - where they used to be able to get it by the pallet, now - the supply is a trickle. This has been going on so long simple "supply and demand" does NOT explain it; either the ammo companies are lying when they say they're at full production, or someone is intercepting it before it ever hits the retail level. (Note that centerfire ammo is is good supply - 9mm, .45, .223, 7.62x39, .308, whatever; no problem getting it. BUT - prices ARE up.)

Hoarders? Again, this has been going on SO long that hoarders must be sitting on a MOUNTAIN of product; seriously, if production IS going full steam ahead - where the heck is it?

It is a Supply/Demand issue...

1. Following a "panic" ammo companies may add extra shifts, but not extra capacity because its not economical to do so. Once a panic ends, demand drops and excess production capacity becomes added overhead. Look at 9mm and other calibers which are now returning to "normalcy"

2. .22LR by its very nature is actually quite limited in production capacity. It's so cheap to make and sell that it makes no sense to reinvest in adding capacity as demand (up until recently) is quite low. Also, a line which produces handgun ammo can't just switch over and make .22lr. IIRC, it requires a dedicated line. You either have that or not.

3. Demand is high enough and prices low enough that people who don't need any .22lr will continue buying it. People who do need it will as well.

4. Because of a combination of (2) and (3), every single production unit of .22lr is already allocated to retailers and sold off immediately to customers, and therefor leading to bare shelves

5. From a consumer psychology standpoint, scarcity of .22lr begets even more hoarding behavior, prompting more bulk buying. Something that is routinely out of stock gets hoarded more often. Scarcity only adds demand. The "hoarders" are sitting on mountains of .22lr and buying more of it.

Ultimately, it comes back down to price. For whatever reason, the ammo industry has refused to raise prices to meet demand, maybe out of fear of offending gun owners? I don't know. But it's a logical solution because raising prices accomplishes two key things:

1. Reduces demand. If you're willing to spend $150/1000 rd, but $200/1000rd is too much, then your demand has diminished.

2. Improves stock. As demand drops, stocks of 22lr rise... rather quickly.

I predict, if ammo makers follow through with the above, 22LR will become plentiful within 3 months, with stocks being refilled in 4, and prices going back down to normal levels in 6 with healthy demand.

This should be done for every panic and price shock that happens to avoid long-term shortages.

 

[alexander45]

Got 3 50 round boxes of Remington thunderbolt high velocity Tuesday for about 6 cents a round I figur my break action single should eat it just fine

 

[bannockburn]

I see small amounts of .22 ammo at various places locally but still no where near the selection or quantity that there use to be.

 

[ku4hx]

Comes and goes here but I've found for "good customers" the LGSs we frequent always seem to find what we need in the quantities we want.

 

[il.bill]

...
I predict, if ammo makers follow through with the above, 22LR will become plentiful within 3 months, with stocks being refilled in 4, and prices going back down to normal levels in 6 with healthy demand.

...

Simply not going to happen.

 

[Hammer059]

My LGS had a new supply of CCI standard-velocity today. I picked up 250 rounds for about $22 but it seems to go pretty fast. Now when they get a shipment of bricks every other week or so, they get ALOT and it lasts at least a week before people buy it up, although the bricks are usually Federal brand.

I almost bought a 10/22 the other week because they keep 325 round boxes of CCI Mini-Mags hidden under the counter. If you come in and ask if they have Mini-Mags, they say no. Buy a .22lr firearm? All of a sudden out come the Mini-Mags, haha.

Since several have brought this up, when I say "brick" I mean 500 rounds, sometimes 525. From my experience, this is what 99% of people mean when they refer to a "brick" of .22 ammo

 

[DevsAdvocate]

Simply not going to happen.

Of course not, for whatever crazy market rules the firearms community operate under. Apparently supply/demand only exists on Gunbroker, Armslist, and gun forums.

 

[2011redrider]

22

If you are willing to wait an hour or two before opening, Walmart has been easy to find it. I just use this app to find what is going on the shelves in the morning at 700 when my store opens. My local store comes out and gives numbers for the ammo dept to avoid people fighting as to who was first in line and nobody tries to run to the ammo section to get in line first. Once you get the number you can leave and come back at 700 when they open.


Www.findmeammo.com and use the walmart tab at the top. Hasnt failed yet. I recently retired and have time to wait in line, but, between Cabelas online and walmart I was able to get over 30k rounds in the last year. App just asks for caliber of ammo and then your zip, it shows about 10 stores in my area.

 

[markm_04]

And how many of those rounds have you used in the last year?

 

[ghfljf]

Local gun shot has had Remington Thunderballs at about $29 a brick. I bought 2 boxes of 100 Winchester XX at Farm and Fleet about a month ago, but none there since then. It shows up then it is gone.

 

[HankB]

. . . I bought a 10/22 the other week because they keep 325 round boxes of CCI Mini-Mags hidden under the counter. If you come in and ask if they have Mini-Mags, they say no. Buy a .22lr firearm? All of a sudden out come the Mini-Mags, haha. . . .

Confirmation that at least ONE seller of .22 ammo IS a LIAR.

And even knowing this, some people are willing to buy from him. (Let me know if the Mini-Mags will still come out a month or two from now for you if you don't buy another gun.)

. . . Ultimately, it comes back down to price. For whatever reason, the ammo industry has refused to raise prices to meet demand, maybe out of fear of offending gun owners? . . .

They haven't been shy about raising the price of OTHER ammo - just look at how .223 and 9mm have gone up in the last few years. (For more of a shock, look at how they've gone up in the last 12-14 years; my notes say average increases at retail have been about 8-9 percent per year. Compounded.) And the $18/325 round price I paid at Cabela's a few months back is at least a couple of bucks more that it was right before the .22 shortages began, when Cabela's had pallets of .22s on the floor, all on sale . . .

. . . I predict, if ammo makers follow through with the above, 22LR will become plentiful within 3 months, with stocks being refilled in 4, and prices going back down to normal levels in 6 with healthy demand . . .

I don't believe this for a minute. But this is one case in which I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[danez71]

It is a Supply/Demand issue...

1. Following a "panic" ammo companies may add extra shifts, but not extra capacity because its not economical to do so. Once a panic ends, demand drops and excess production capacity becomes added overhead. Look at 9mm and other calibers which are now returning to "normalcy"

2. .22LR by its very nature is actually quite limited in production capacity. It's so cheap to make and sell that it makes no sense to reinvest in adding capacity as demand (up until recently) is quite low. Also, a line which produces handgun ammo can't just switch over and make .22lr. IIRC, it requires a dedicated line. You either have that or not.

3. Demand is high enough and prices low enough that people who don't need any .22lr will continue buying it. People who do need it will as well.

4. Because of a combination of (2) and (3), every single production unit of .22lr is already allocated to retailers and sold off immediately to customers, and therefor leading to bare shelves

5. From a consumer psychology standpoint, scarcity of .22lr begets even more hoarding behavior, prompting more bulk buying. Something that is routinely out of stock gets hoarded more often. Scarcity only adds demand. The "hoarders" are sitting on mountains of .22lr and buying more of it.

Ultimately, it comes back down to price. For whatever reason, the ammo industry has refused to raise prices to meet demand, maybe out of fear of offending gun owners? I don't know. But it's a logical solution because raising prices accomplishes two key things:

1. Reduces demand. If you're willing to spend $150/1000 rd, but $200/1000rd is too much, then your demand has diminished.

2. Improves stock. As demand drops, stocks of 22lr rise... rather quickly.

I predict, if ammo makers follow through with the above, 22LR will become plentiful within 3 months, with stocks being refilled in 4, and prices going back down to normal levels in 6 with healthy demand.

This should be done for every panic and price shock that happens to avoid long-term shortages.

I agree for the most part until #4

Numerous people have said that at least some the retailers are reporting that they are NOT getting nearly the qty as before.

Heck, the place I go to the most told me 'We get it on Thursdays around 11am, and put it out around 1pm.'

I went a couple times and they did what they said.

They used to get what they wanted. Now they say they usually get a few thousand a week (I think around 3k-7k.... rarely 10k.)

 

[oneounceload]

as demand (up until recently) is quite low.

More rounds of .22 are sold than anything else every year. Demand has always been steady - and high

 

[HankB]

' ' ' Numerous people have said that at least some the retailers are reporting that they are NOT getting nearly the qty as before . . .
They used to get what they wanted. Now they say they usually get a few thousand a week . . .

Exactly - clerks I've spoken to at Cabela's, Dick's, Academy, WalMart, and a couple of LGS's have all said that they cannot get supply in like they used to; whereas the big guys used to have no problem getting PALLETS of .22, now, if they get a couple of cases, they're lucky.

Ammo being supplied to sellers at the retail level has slowed to a trickle, and has been that way for a couple of years now.

So unless EVERY clerk at EVERY retailer is part of the SAME conspiracy to LIE to customers - something out of the ordinary is happening upstream of the retail level.

 

[Jlr2267]

I've seen more minimags in the last month than in the last 2 years. The "choot'em" 300 round boxes are in all my LGS's at $29.99. Cabela's also has 100rd boxes regularly now. Looks like about 9-10 cents per round will be the new normal for CCI minimags...maybe a little less for other brands in bulk.

 

[Armor Snail]

Yup. In almost every store. Even Walmart. Priced not terrible either.

 

[Jlr2267]

Exactly - clerks I've spoken to at Cabela's, Dick's, Academy, WalMart, and a couple of LGS's have all said that they cannot get supply in like they used to; whereas the big guys used to have no problem getting PALLETS of .22, now, if they get a couple of cases, they're lucky.

Ammo being supplied to sellers at the retail level has slowed to a trickle, and has been that way for a couple of years now.

So unless EVERY clerk at EVERY retailer is part of the SAME conspiracy to LIE to customers - something out of the ordinary is happening upstream of the retail level.

When demand outstrips supply, shelves get depleted, all shelves...now, instead of filling Wmart's full order this month, and then Cabela's next month, everyone is getting something less than what they need. I don't see anything unusual here, given the unprecedented demand for 22lr.

 

[JohnKSa]

Ammo being supplied to sellers at the retail level has slowed to a trickle, and has been that way for a couple of years now.

Of course it has. The issue is that it used to be very unusual for any large retailer to completely sell out of .22LR. They would order what they needed to restock and if one retailer happened to have a huge amount of sales, there would be another retailer somewhere else that didn't sell much at all. It all balanced out and the result was that every time a retailer placed a large order they would get the entire amount that they ordered.

But now every single large retailer is basically trying to completely restock with every single order. A little thought will explain why when that happens, it becomes far, FAR more likely that large orders won't get completely filled anymore.

Now that EVERY retailer is making large orders EVERY week, instead of most retailers making relatively small orders most of the time and maybe one larger order once in awhile, the large orders aren't getting filled anymore.

Look at it this way. Let's say that EVERYONE in a city turns on all their water faucets at once and leaves them on until the reservoir is completely drained. Now the city is in a situation where virtually any small demand peak can't be satisfied. The reservoir was filled and maintained based on a certain amount of demand. When the demand went through the roof and the reservoir was emptied, it became very difficult for the city to refill the reservoir while still meeting demand. Even satisfying normal demand that wouldn't have been an issue previously is now a major problem and the people who are concerned about not being able to get a drink when they want are now keeping demand higher than normal by filling as many containers as they can find with water any time they can get any water to come out of the faucet.

In that situation, every single end user could accurately complain that they can't fill their "orders" for water like they used to. They could accurately say "There's less water coming out of my faucet than there used to be."

But that doesn't mean that there's really less water overall coming out of the pipes citywide. It's just that the reservoir is empty and people are pumping water out of the faucets just as fast as the reservoir can be replenished (or maybe faster) because they're worried that there won't be water the next time they need some. Instead of being able to rely on the reservoir's reserve capacity and having supply replenish the reservoir as needed, now the supply is going directly into the pipes and there's no reserve. On top of that, people are still panicked about the situation and are therefore keeping demand higher than normal (and therefore perpetuating the shortage) in an attempt to fortify themselves against the inevitable effects of the shortage.

And to make it all worse, the rumblings and rumors about the city being involved in a conspiracy to deny water to the citizens pushes demand even higher.

 

[markm_04]

Look at it this way. Let's say that EVERYONE in a city turns on all their water faucets at once and leaves them on until the reservoir is completely drained. Now the city is in a situation where virtually any small demand peak can't be satisfied. The reservoir was filled and maintained based on a certain amount of demand. When the demand went through the roof and the reservoir was emptied, it became very difficult for the city to refill the reservoir while still meeting demand. Even satisfying normal demand that wouldn't have been an issue previously is now a major problem and the people who are concerned about not being able to get a drink when they want are now keeping demand higher than normal by filling as many containers as they can find with water any time they can get any water to come out of the faucet.



In that situation, every single end user could accurately complain that they can't fill their "orders" for water like they used to. They could accurately say "There's less water coming out of my faucet than there used to be."



But that doesn't mean that there's really less water overall coming out of the pipes citywide. It's just that the reservoir is empty and people are pumping water out of the faucets just as fast as the reservoir can be replenished (or maybe faster) because they're worried that there won't be water the next time they need some. Instead of being able to rely on the reservoir's reserve capacity and having supply replenish the reservoir as needed, now the supply is going directly into the pipes and there's no reserve. On top of that, people are still panicked about the situation and are therefore keeping demand higher than normal (and therefore perpetuating the shortage) in an attempt to fortify themselves against the inevitable effects of the shortage.



And to make it all worse, the rumblings and rumors about the city being involved in a conspiracy to deny water to the citizens pushes demand even higher.

Awesome comparison and summarization of the current situation that many people are experiencing!

 

[OcelotZ3]

I haven't seen any here in Oregon except at gun shows, and it is at least $50/500. A friend has seen a box or two on the shelf at a local store but it went immediately.

 

[ohioshooter]

Maybe it's just me but I've had about 2000 rounds for about a year and rarely ever shoot it even with my 7 and 9 yr old. They shoot the 22 every now and then but they like the 5.7 and my 9mm better. So to try and run all over 'Merica for 22 ammo seems pointless to me.

 

[jrdolall]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post
Look at it this way. Let's say that EVERYONE in a city turns on all their water faucets at once and leaves them on until the reservoir is completely drained. Now the city is in a situation where virtually any small demand peak can't be satisfied. The reservoir was filled and maintained based on a certain amount of demand. When the demand went through the roof and the reservoir was emptied, it became very difficult for the city to refill the reservoir while still meeting demand. Even satisfying normal demand that wouldn't have been an issue previously is now a major problem and the people who are concerned about not being able to get a drink when they want are now keeping demand higher than normal by filling as many containers as they can find with water any time they can get any water to come out of the faucet.



In that situation, every single end user could accurately complain that they can't fill their "orders" for water like they used to. They could accurately say "There's less water coming out of my faucet than there used to be."



But that doesn't mean that there's really less water overall coming out of the pipes citywide. It's just that the reservoir is empty and people are pumping water out of the faucets just as fast as the reservoir can be replenished (or maybe faster) because they're worried that there won't be water the next time they need some. Instead of being able to rely on the reservoir's reserve capacity and having supply replenish the reservoir as needed, now the supply is going directly into the pipes and there's no reserve. On top of that, people are still panicked about the situation and are therefore keeping demand higher than normal (and therefore perpetuating the shortage) in an attempt to fortify themselves against the inevitable effects of the shortage.



And to make it all worse, the rumblings and rumors about the city being involved in a conspiracy to deny water to the citizens pushes demand even higher.

Awesome comparison and summarization of the current situation that many people are experiencing!

But they could solve the problem by simply building another reservoir! Right?