Justin Holder
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Can you find the bullet hole?
Can you hunt with an M1 Carbine ??
- Thread starter Kymasabe
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Kernel
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^^^^^
"Here, kitty, kitty." BAMM!
"Here, kitty, kitty." BAMM!
Ear, or square in the nose?
Justin Holder
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Its the dark spot on the forehead.
Hunting with .30 carbine
I note many threads regarding the .30 carbine, and the same questions seem to pop up over the past several years.
1) After WW2, the M1 carbine was available for around $20 through the NRA, and a lot of people, many former GIs, bought them and used them quite successfully for deer hunting.
2) Lots of articles written about their adequacy for coyotes and javelina and other small game.
3) The military ammo is ball, full patch, full metal jacket--whatever you choose to call it--and isn't useful for hunting--or home defense for that matter. I note that as of today, several ammo supply sites are sold out of the RNSP hunting type carbine ammo. Perhaps it is suddenly popular? (2/13/2011)
4) Military ammo is NOT designed to kill. It's non-expanding and designed to wound, on the theory that this ties up not only the wounded, but one or two of his buddies who need to move him or attend to his wounds. The stories of this FMJ ammo's inability to penetrate North Korean winter clothing seem silly, since the non-expanding ammo penetrates quite well, often passing through. In hunting, this is not desirable. Being non-expanding, it does less damage to internal organs, provokes less immediate internal bleeding, and generates less hydrostatic shock.
5) The .30 carbine was THE FAVORITE WEAPON of the great Audie Murphy in WW2. If it was good enough for him, it was good enough for me. I purchased one (M2) on the black market in Vietnam in 1967 and used it throughout my tour in preference to the M16. Much less finicky maintenance required. Besides, it just looked and felt so much more like a real rifle. Many of us weren't used to the modern angular weapons so common today. They looked wrong.
6) As noted by others, the .30 carbine is considered too mild a cartridge for deer hunting in several states and is thus illegal for that purpose.
7) Some use it effectively for woodchucks and other varmints, though its low velocity and relative inaccuracy and short range would seem to make it less than ideal for this purpose.
8) The Ruger Blackhawk is available in .30 carbine caliber for those who want a handgun that, as in the Old West, uses the same ammo as their rifle. Handgun loads require a faster-burning powder to achieve approximately the same velocity as the carbine, however, negating some of this interchangeability of ammo. Regular factory rifle loads will fire just fine in the Blackhawk, however, and you have to use rifle primers on handloads for the handgun to prevent perforating the primer.
I note many threads regarding the .30 carbine, and the same questions seem to pop up over the past several years.
1) After WW2, the M1 carbine was available for around $20 through the NRA, and a lot of people, many former GIs, bought them and used them quite successfully for deer hunting.
2) Lots of articles written about their adequacy for coyotes and javelina and other small game.
3) The military ammo is ball, full patch, full metal jacket--whatever you choose to call it--and isn't useful for hunting--or home defense for that matter. I note that as of today, several ammo supply sites are sold out of the RNSP hunting type carbine ammo. Perhaps it is suddenly popular? (2/13/2011)
4) Military ammo is NOT designed to kill. It's non-expanding and designed to wound, on the theory that this ties up not only the wounded, but one or two of his buddies who need to move him or attend to his wounds. The stories of this FMJ ammo's inability to penetrate North Korean winter clothing seem silly, since the non-expanding ammo penetrates quite well, often passing through. In hunting, this is not desirable. Being non-expanding, it does less damage to internal organs, provokes less immediate internal bleeding, and generates less hydrostatic shock.
5) The .30 carbine was THE FAVORITE WEAPON of the great Audie Murphy in WW2. If it was good enough for him, it was good enough for me. I purchased one (M2) on the black market in Vietnam in 1967 and used it throughout my tour in preference to the M16. Much less finicky maintenance required. Besides, it just looked and felt so much more like a real rifle. Many of us weren't used to the modern angular weapons so common today. They looked wrong.
6) As noted by others, the .30 carbine is considered too mild a cartridge for deer hunting in several states and is thus illegal for that purpose.
7) Some use it effectively for woodchucks and other varmints, though its low velocity and relative inaccuracy and short range would seem to make it less than ideal for this purpose.
8) The Ruger Blackhawk is available in .30 carbine caliber for those who want a handgun that, as in the Old West, uses the same ammo as their rifle. Handgun loads require a faster-burning powder to achieve approximately the same velocity as the carbine, however, negating some of this interchangeability of ammo. Regular factory rifle loads will fire just fine in the Blackhawk, however, and you have to use rifle primers on handloads for the handgun to prevent perforating the primer.
It's Just Pretty
Aside from all the ballistic data, the .30 carbine is such a pretty little rifle, fast-handling, easy to get on target.
It's sort of like my old Asahi Pentax camera from a Vietnam PX. It's so much prettier than modern cameras. Unfortunately, the modern cameras and weapons do have technical advantages beyond their aesthetics.
But I keep it around, and I keep an M1 carbine with a 30-round mag loaded with RNSP ammo.
Aside from all the ballistic data, the .30 carbine is such a pretty little rifle, fast-handling, easy to get on target.
It's sort of like my old Asahi Pentax camera from a Vietnam PX. It's so much prettier than modern cameras. Unfortunately, the modern cameras and weapons do have technical advantages beyond their aesthetics.
But I keep it around, and I keep an M1 carbine with a 30-round mag loaded with RNSP ammo.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Actually, it is pretty well established at this point that the same powder that gets you max. velocity in a long barrel will get you max velocity in a shorter barrel, as well.
You may see accuracy improvements in the handgun through switching to the faster handgun powders, and certainly will notice a flash and blast reduction, but when chronographed, the same H110, 4227, W296 loads that give best results in the rifle will be giving the max results through the Blackhawk.
And, no, you won't be able to match the velocity you'd get from the longer barrel, with ANY powder.
TexasPatriot.308
Member
killed many a two legged varmint about 200 lb.
You said you own already a Chinese Mosin carbine.....what is so difficult about adjusting the sights (all it takes is a punch, a hammer and some time and ammo for testing) and learn how it shoots??
The Mosin puts a much heavier pill downrange with basically 3 times the energy of the 30 Carbine....a much better hog medicine...and a Mosin carbine is almost as light and handy.
Re fast-burning powders in pistols and velocities possible, I can only refer you to a Shooting Times article which discusses this:
http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aastruger30bh.htm
I note the velocity obtained in the Blackhawk is, with a 110 gr bullet, over 1400 fps and the carbine gives 1900. The 85 gr bullet gives 1900 in the pistol.
The Shooting Times article (a mag I find pretty authoritative) states that the pistol prefers the faster-burning powders. Fits with my experience and common sense. They do note that the accuracy is best if the powder load is backed off just a bit from max possible velocity.
Thanks for comments, Sam.
http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aastruger30bh.htm
I note the velocity obtained in the Blackhawk is, with a 110 gr bullet, over 1400 fps and the carbine gives 1900. The 85 gr bullet gives 1900 in the pistol.
The Shooting Times article (a mag I find pretty authoritative) states that the pistol prefers the faster-burning powders. Fits with my experience and common sense. They do note that the accuracy is best if the powder load is backed off just a bit from max possible velocity.
Thanks for comments, Sam.
center shot
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Pockets full of 15 round mags, close quarter pigs, sounds like fun to me.
j2crows
Member
Perfect here in New Mexico for Javelina.
hirundo82
Member
loadedround said:
You have to remember that Southern deer basically are varmint size compared to Yankee deer.
jimmyraythomason
Member
Maybe where you live but I personally know of 4 bucks killed in the same central Alabama area this past season that field dressed over 190lbs each. So unless your yankee deer average over 400lbs,I think they both compare pretty well.
ColtPythonElite
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When I was a kid, a cheapo M1 was a lot of jr. higher's first deer rifles. They seemed to work just fine back then. I'd guess they still would today.
T.R.
Member
Audie Murphy killed many Germans during WWII with his M1 carbine. For those who don't recognize this name: he was the most highly decorated American soldier of WWII.
Since this cartridge is similar to 357 MAG, I advise limiting shots to a reasonable deer killing distance of 60 yards or so.
TR
Since this cartridge is similar to 357 MAG, I advise limiting shots to a reasonable deer killing distance of 60 yards or so.
TR
greyling22
Member
my grandfather used to take his m1 carbine to the field loaded with ball for squirrels. if he saw a deer he slipped in a hollow point. now this was east texas, so short range and small deer, but he killed a lot of deer with it.
dprice3844444
member
just remember,if ya hittem in the wrong spot,they are meaner than a po'd ex wife at alimony time
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