"Candidate proposes using textbooks as shields" CNN.com article

[MatthewVanitas]

From www.cnn.com

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/10/20/school.shootings.textbooks.ap/index.html

andidate proposes using textbooks as shields
POSTED: 10:10 a.m. EDT, October 20, 2006

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OKLAHOMA CITY, Oklahoma (AP) -- A candidate for state superintendent of schools said Thursday he wants thick used textbooks placed under every student's desk so they can use them for self-defense during school shootings.

"People might think it's kind of weird, crazy," said Republican Bill Crozier of Union City, Oklahoma, a teacher and former Air Force security officer. "It is a practical thing; it's something you can do. It might be a way to deflect those bullets until police go there."

Crozier and a group of aides produced a 10-minute video Tuesday in which they shoot math, language and telephone books with a variety of weapons, including an AK-47 assault rifle and a 9mm pistol. The rifle bullet penetrated two books, including a calculus textbook, but the pistol bullet was stopped by a single book.

Crozier said the demonstration shows that a student could effectively use a textbook as protection in a school shooting.

An Oklahoma Highway Patrol spokesman was skeptical.

"He probably needs to take a look at some ballistics tests," Lt. Pete Norwood said. "There are some rifles not even Webster's Dictionary will stop."

Crozier said he got the idea after the April 1999 shootings at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. The idea gained momentum after a December 1999 school shooting in Fort Gibson, Oklahoma, when a 13-year-old boy wounded five fellow students. Crozier noted that a bullet lodged in books in one student's backpack.

"You don't know where they're going to happen. You don't know when they're going to happen. There ought to be some kind of plan to react to it," Crozier said.

Six girls and a principal were killed in a recent string of shootings in Colorado, Wisconsin and at an Amish schoolhouse in Pennsylvania.

Crozier faces incumbent Sandy Garrett, a Democrat, in the November 7 general election. A spokeswoman for Garrett's campaign, Kimberly Hawkins Sanders, said Garrett had no comment on Crozier's idea.

 

[TexasRifleman]

People might think it's kind of weird, crazy,

Yes, actually..... they might. Wonder why? :banghead:

 

[armoredman]

There was a company producing bullet resistant backpacks and jackets for inner city kids some time ago. Wonder if those are still around? Could you simply buy a back panel IIIA or III, and put inside the backpack on the body side? Just a thought.

 

[M2 Carbine]

At least the guy is trying something, instead of supporting more anti gun laws and the highly successful "gun free zone" (AKA killing zone) around schools.

 

[Lupinus]

actually in theory so long as it is a hand gun round it should work, at the very least better then nothing. Agianst a rifle round anything more powerful then a 22lr and you will likely be screwed.

But it is better then half the crap they were telling us to do in my school after columbine.

 

[Rembrandt]

I remember as a youngster, a trip to the "woodshed" proved that a book inserted in the britches does provide protection.

 

[ribbonstone]

Politically more correct than "hide behind the fat kid".

 

[Lupinus]

nah ribbon the fat kid is less dense and therefor the bullet will pass through mroe easily.....stand behind the big meaty linebacker or wrestler

 

[Mr White]

Apparently liberal Dimocraps don't have the stupidity market cornered after all.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Better yet, the teacher, who has a carry license and moonlights as a firearms instructor at the local shooting range, pulls out his 45 Kimber and sends the shooter to hell where he belongs.

Arm (qualified) school personnel.
It's for the kids.

 

[Combat-wombat]

They could duct-tape trauma plates to the textbooks...

 

[Euclidean]

Better yet, the teacher, who has a carry license and moonlights as a firearms instructor at the local shooting range, pulls out his 45 Kimber and sends the shooter to hell where he belongs.

Arm (qualified) school personnel.
It's for the kids.

Well I'm only a customer at the local shooting range, and my .45 is a Springfield... close enough?

 

[Shweboner]

bullets aren't tennis balls, and we are not in the matrix....

How the hell is some bonehead 13 year old kid going to continuously deflect bullets with a textbook 'until police arrive'? Hell, how can anyone do it?

whats to stop the shooter from moving in closer and shooting them in the face?

Someone should give this guy a pile of books and send him down range while some idiot kid bump fires an AK at his face.... we'll see where his theory stands then.


Letting a CCW teacher come to class armed.... baaaaaaaaad

playing real-life game of Pong with books and bullets.... smart idea!

 

[Lucky]

Give the guy a break, he's trying to offer practical suggestions. I was thinking the idea was they'd turn the desk on it's side. But either way, the man is grasping reality where most others are stuck in denial. More people facing reality is a good thing.

BTW doesn't it take like 40 inches of books to stop intermediate rifle cartridges?

 

[Lupinus]

no it isnt perfect and untill the boneheads lift the no guns in school crap they have to figure the best they can do, its that or teachers risk their job and possibly their freedom to violate the rules.

Holding a book up as a shield when someone is bearing down on you with a handgun isn't first choice. Having to resort to a classroom full of kids throwing books and anything else in arms reach at an attacker isn't first choice, but it is an option.

Yes, the best option is to allow ccw anyplace anytime. Bit you know what? Sometimes the best option isn't an option for several and often stupid reasons. SO in the mean time untill said stupid rules can be removed you need to find ways that are better then nothing.

Take an average high school history book, use a little duct tape on the opening edge oposit the spine to simulate someone squeezing it, and fire a handgun at it. Hell do the same with a friggin phone book. A good thick book will stop many handgun rounds esspecialy if compressed a bit to make it more solid. And it doesn't need to be the matrix to cover yourself with a shield over vital areas while you move to a safer position.

Agian, it isn't the best option out there. But vcurrently it may be one of the bettr practicle options.

 

[dasmi]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot31.htm
That link'll explain why this is a bad idea.

 

[.38 Special]

The typical American mother responds to the idea of armed teachers with a mix of incredulity, disgust, and outrage. Until that issue is addressed -- if that's even possible -- politicians will continue to come up with hare-brained ideas.

 

[Lupinus]

dasmi-
Try the same with a hardcover book compressed as if it were being squeezed

 

[DRMMR02]

The typical American mother responds to the idea of armed teachers with a mix of incredulity, disgust, and outrage. Until that issue is addressed -- if that's even possible -- politicians will continue to come up with hare-brained ideas

Great point. The first step is realizing that many of the people making the decions(like PTAs, activist groups, etc) are going to use emotions to make their decisions, not rational thought. Until a way is thought upi where we can counteract their emotional response, or at least get them out of the decision process, no progress will be made. Emotional moms are doing a lot more harm than good.

 

[Grey54956]

Gotta love the Box o' Truth. Seriously, one of the best sites out there...

Anyway, the idea of using books for shielding is lunacy at best. There really is no substitute for an active defense. When people attack, the best policy is to figth back with whatever is available. Being prepared just means that you pick a very good "whatever is available" beforehand.

 

[Biker]

The seminal concept is to *fight back*! If that means using a book as both body armor and a weapon, so be it. The alternative is to huddle in a corner and wait for the executioner.
The wolf is always surprised when the bunny bites his nose.
100 mice can take down a cat if they attack simultaneously.
*Drahka*...Fight.
This is the mindset that we need to instill in our kids and this mindset will serve them well throughout their lives in many settings.
Biker

 

[sicario103]

What is this an episode of Mcgiver? Should the kids glue rulers, pencil cases and erasers to make a crossbow to shoot at the BG?

The only way to minimize this from happening again is if they freaking open up their wallets and pockets and pour some money for security........

Teaching little kids to bum rush an armed assailant is just being irresponsible.
Arming teachers will never happens and neither will CCW for schools.

So, again where does this lead us? Money to biff up security..... but oh yeah they rather lay all responsabilities on our kids to ward off the attacker by blitzing him........

 

[SDM]

The rifle bullet penetrated two books, including a calculus textbook, but the pistol bullet was stopped by a single book.

Are calculus books made differently than say a physics book? I'm glad they took the time to get all the important details.

 

[Grey54956]

So, the answer is to pour more money into security for all of the thousands of schools across the U.S.? Great, more metal detectors and lockdown drills.

Security systems don't work against a determined attacked. They can simply walk through the metal detector, because they don't care. And controlled access to building doesn't work either, someone just has wait in the bushes until an unsuspecting student, teacher, janitor, or passerby walks on out, then they just slip right in.

I don't want a bunch of kids to have to rush a violent maniac, but given the choice of that, or having them shoot them all in the back of the head while "waiting to be rescued", I'd rather the former. A slim chance of survival and victory is better than a sure chance of death and defeat.

 

[sicario103]

Posted by Grey54956

Security systems don't work against a determined attacked. They can simply walk through the metal detector, because they don't care. And controlled access to building doesn't work either, someone just has wait in the bushes until an unsuspecting student, teacher, janitor, or passerby walks on out, then they just slip right in.

I don't want a bunch of kids to have to rush a violent maniac, but given the choice of that, or having them shoot them all in the back of the head while "waiting to be rescued",

But that's the thing, I think this is the most viable solution that we have at the moment. You keep only one or two accessible entry/exit points, metal detector and armed security officer.

Yeah, it will cost a crap load of cash but are there any other alternate effective and realistic solution?