megatronrules
Member
Are reproduction cap and ball revolvers legal in NY,MA and other places with really restrictive gun laws? Would carrying or processing one of these guns be the same legally as a "modern gun"?
Cap and Ball revolvers,are these legal in NY,MA?
- Thread starter megatronrules
- Start date
- Status
Great question. I have the answer. And I'm sorry to have to give it to you. By the time I'm done you will forever understand why NY is nuts and citizens everywhere have to do all they can to ensure their state does not fall into the same political haze that this place has. Here goes....
All handguns in NY must be registered. This goes for all "functioning" handguns. They must be on a permit. You obtain a permit by applying, giving the county you live in approximately $125 (varies), get fiingerprinted, undergo an FBI background check, submit references that you have known for at least five years, have an interview by a police officer, wait 6 months to a year (varies), take a handgun class, then, if you pass the above, you MAY have your permit issued by a county judge. It is an option for him/her. You may not get it. Depends on the wind direction of that particular county. County judges are elected for 10 year terms.
Black powder handguns are just like any other handgun. HOWEVER, if you own one, you do not have to register it if you DO NOT SHOOT IT. If you don't shoot it, it is technically a replica weapon, and not a functioning weapon. The minute you shoot it, it becomes a fuctioning weapon, and it has to be registered on your permit. When you register a handgun on a permit, you must go to the county pistol permit ladies, give them the serial number, and have that added to your permit. That's what you do when you purchase handguns. You pay, you go get the green slip, then you go back to the dealer and get the gun. So, to answer your question, Black Powder handguns are legal. Just don't shoot them. If you do, make sure you have waited the year and gone through the process of obtaining the NY State Pistol Permit.
And thusly, if you want to sell a Black Powder handgun, make sure it hasn't been fired. That way it is a replica, and not a functioning weapon. If its a replica, you can sell it easily. If you fired it, you need a green sheet proving the buyer has gone through the previously described permitting process.
All this explains why we have no crime here in NY, The Empire State.
All handguns in NY must be registered. This goes for all "functioning" handguns. They must be on a permit. You obtain a permit by applying, giving the county you live in approximately $125 (varies), get fiingerprinted, undergo an FBI background check, submit references that you have known for at least five years, have an interview by a police officer, wait 6 months to a year (varies), take a handgun class, then, if you pass the above, you MAY have your permit issued by a county judge. It is an option for him/her. You may not get it. Depends on the wind direction of that particular county. County judges are elected for 10 year terms.
Black powder handguns are just like any other handgun. HOWEVER, if you own one, you do not have to register it if you DO NOT SHOOT IT. If you don't shoot it, it is technically a replica weapon, and not a functioning weapon. The minute you shoot it, it becomes a fuctioning weapon, and it has to be registered on your permit. When you register a handgun on a permit, you must go to the county pistol permit ladies, give them the serial number, and have that added to your permit. That's what you do when you purchase handguns. You pay, you go get the green slip, then you go back to the dealer and get the gun. So, to answer your question, Black Powder handguns are legal. Just don't shoot them. If you do, make sure you have waited the year and gone through the process of obtaining the NY State Pistol Permit.
And thusly, if you want to sell a Black Powder handgun, make sure it hasn't been fired. That way it is a replica, and not a functioning weapon. If its a replica, you can sell it easily. If you fired it, you need a green sheet proving the buyer has gone through the previously described permitting process.
All this explains why we have no crime here in NY, The Empire State.
Gritacular
Member
When I was into cap and ball guns the Federal laws did not consider them a "firearm". The dealers that I bought mine from (FFL licensed shops) told me that any gun manufactured before 1898 or any reproduction thereof was not considered a "fiream". There were no restrictions in the state I lived in. However, states now believe they can pass just about any laws they want with no regard to the Feds so in some states they probably are regulated just like a firearm.
dwave
Member
They are allowed to pass laws that are more restrictive than the fed, but have to enforce fed law if their own laws are more lenient.
That being said, I don't believe that state or fed should pass laws restricting anything in the Constitution.
Buck Snort
Member
"I don't believe that state or fed should pass laws restricting anything in the Constitution."
Well now, that'd sure be nice of them, wouldn't it?
Well now, that'd sure be nice of them, wouldn't it?
Last edited:
I seem to recall something about family not counting as a reference either.
So what does someone do if they just moved to New York? What if they are one of those guys who is a hard working family man who primarily comes home to his wife and kids every day and does not make a lot of new references?
I don't imagine co-workers in that state would be the best to cite as references for a gun, word of gun ownership at some places of employment could be undesirable.
So I guess they have to wait 5 years and start spending less time with the wife and kids after work so they have references to cite in 5 years?
People who won't be scared of evil guns in such an anti place and be horrified if someone asks them to be a reference so they can buy one?
Do you have like a gun ownership cult in New York for that? Where you go worship guns banished from mainstream New York and reference one another?
I don't imagine you can can just ask your typical person raised in such an environment to be a reference without their head spinning around. And some others who would be a willing reference you may not want to inform that you will own firearms or handguns.
Last edited:
I don't wish to "jump the gun," so to speak, but if the SCOTUS case McDonald v. Chicago goes our way, then the Second Amendment may be enforced at the state level through selective incorporation, at least, albeit it will still take many lawsuits challenging existing laws afterward to get to where we want to be (and any free country needs to be).
Mr Zoogster,
Family does not count for possible references. And sorry, if you just recently moved here, you don't get a pistol permit. Any handguns you have wait out of state while you fulfill the requirements of NY State. This is before you can take posession of them. If you're military, or you have no other option, you turn them over to police, who store them for you until you get you get your ducks in a row. If you don't ever do so, so be it.
I'm not trying to make this into a editorial. I'm attempting to keep it factual. This is what happens when citizens allow the constitution to be trashed. I guess that part qualifies as editorial writing. You make your own decision on that.
Family does not count for possible references. And sorry, if you just recently moved here, you don't get a pistol permit. Any handguns you have wait out of state while you fulfill the requirements of NY State. This is before you can take posession of them. If you're military, or you have no other option, you turn them over to police, who store them for you until you get you get your ducks in a row. If you don't ever do so, so be it.
I'm not trying to make this into a editorial. I'm attempting to keep it factual. This is what happens when citizens allow the constitution to be trashed. I guess that part qualifies as editorial writing. You make your own decision on that.
One other aspect to be aware of. There are two basic types of permits. One is a range permit. This allows you to carry a handgun to and from your home to a firing range only. You must take the shortest, most direct route. The other is a full carry permit, which speaks for itself. Many judges are "granting" only the range permit. This is after the process I listed above.
Carl N. Brown
Member
To Post #1. I am under the impression that cap'n'ball versus cartridge firearm matters in most jurisdictions for purchase and possession purposes, since cap'n'ball is more likely to owned and used for collection or target shooting purposes.
Here in Tennessee, anything carried as a weapon of defense or offense is treated as a weapon for carrying weapons laws (not just modern firearms but anything carried with intent to use as a weapon), and it is hard to imagine NY or MA being less restrictive in this area.
Here in Tennessee, anything carried as a weapon of defense or offense is treated as a weapon for carrying weapons laws (not just modern firearms but anything carried with intent to use as a weapon), and it is hard to imagine NY or MA being less restrictive in this area.
Carl N. Brown
Member
To New Yorkers: Tennessee as late as 1992 had Application for Permission to Purchase a Handgun requiring sign off by Chief of Police or County Sheriff, with a fifteen day waiting period, and the only carry permit was a Special Deputy Badge at discretion of the County Sheriff, ranging from no issue to shall issue and every arbitrary step in between. Tennessee went to an instant check system through the state bureau of investigation and a state-level shall-issue carry permit based on passing background check and tests on self defense law and gun safety. It isn't Vermont (yet), but it has evolved from a paternalistic system like New York's to a less restrictive system.
I agree with Susanne Novak's paper in a law journal that the New York Sullivan Act is unconstitutional from the due process and equal justice before the law standpoint (and that paper did not even look at the 2A standing, just at the way other permit and license laws are administered versus the way the Sullivan Law is administered).
I agree with Susanne Novak's paper in a law journal that the New York Sullivan Act is unconstitutional from the due process and equal justice before the law standpoint (and that paper did not even look at the 2A standing, just at the way other permit and license laws are administered versus the way the Sullivan Law is administered).
Old Shooter
Member
thats the main reason I moved from New York to Texas years ago. New York loves to get you under their thumb and every year they pass more restricitons so they can twist that thumb just a bit more.
I had a NY carry pistol permit and hate the feeling that whether or not you get your permit depends on one tin hat locally elected Judge and if he/she feels:
1/ In a good mood the day he/she looks at your application and,
2/ Is pro or anti when it comes to firearms/pistols.
Texas was great, weather in Virginia is a bit better tho.....
I had a NY carry pistol permit and hate the feeling that whether or not you get your permit depends on one tin hat locally elected Judge and if he/she feels:
1/ In a good mood the day he/she looks at your application and,
2/ Is pro or anti when it comes to firearms/pistols.
Texas was great, weather in Virginia is a bit better tho.....
whalerman,
You are not exactly correct.
NYS law allows possession of C&B revolvers and other percussion pistols without registration. However, they have to be "unloaded". NYS law defines "unloaded" as "not being in possession of ammunition", so if you have loading materials such as powder, balls and caps, you are in possession of a "loaded" percussion revolver. Regardless of whether the gun is actually loaded or not. Any "loaded" percussion pistol or revolver must be registered on the pistol permit.
This has nothing to do with whether the gun was ever shot. You just can't possess the loading materials with the gun.
You are not exactly correct.
NYS law allows possession of C&B revolvers and other percussion pistols without registration. However, they have to be "unloaded". NYS law defines "unloaded" as "not being in possession of ammunition", so if you have loading materials such as powder, balls and caps, you are in possession of a "loaded" percussion revolver. Regardless of whether the gun is actually loaded or not. Any "loaded" percussion pistol or revolver must be registered on the pistol permit.
This has nothing to do with whether the gun was ever shot. You just can't possess the loading materials with the gun.
Batjka,
I have no knowledge of the possession of powder and shot aspect of things. That wouldn't come as a surprise to me. Anything that would complicate matters would likely be part of the law of NY State. However, I'm telling you if you fired your cap and ball revolver here in NY, you better have it on your permit. At least in this county. We may not be in disagreement.
We also get into things here where laws are enforced differently in different counties. Some counties allow you a couple handguns, some allow you many more. It is all arbitrary and all supposedly guided by state law. Problem is, the whim of the county judge figures in and things get muddy.
I have no knowledge of the possession of powder and shot aspect of things. That wouldn't come as a surprise to me. Anything that would complicate matters would likely be part of the law of NY State. However, I'm telling you if you fired your cap and ball revolver here in NY, you better have it on your permit. At least in this county. We may not be in disagreement.
We also get into things here where laws are enforced differently in different counties. Some counties allow you a couple handguns, some allow you many more. It is all arbitrary and all supposedly guided by state law. Problem is, the whim of the county judge figures in and things get muddy.
SwordRapier
Member
+1 with a:banghead: added
Alabama2010
Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2009
- Messages
- 136
unless it's got something to do with marijuana
Deltaboy1984
Member
We need to give NY State to Canada and Calif to Mexico!
toivo
Member
Batjka has it right. If you possess powder, shot, and caps, you have to have the pistol registered. It doesn't matter if you shoot it or not; you're breaking the law just by having the means to shoot it.
RE permit references: it's different depending on what county you live in. Some don't even require your references to be NY residents; others require them to live in-county. When I got my permit, all my references were members of the gun club I belong to. IIRC, it had to be people I had known for at least three years, not five. That's also county-by-county.
Maybe the authorities figure if you've shot it then you have the means to shoot it. In this county. It better be unfired. If it isn't it better be on your permit. And you better have already gone through the permit process. They don't search your house for powder and ball. But if you're traveling with it I can see where they would.
bushmaster1313
Member
We have no crime in New Jersey either.
toivo
Member
I think we're saying the same thing, whalerman, just that the law is even stricter than you originally said. Even if the pistol is unfired, you can't possess it along with powder, ball, and caps unless it's on your permit.
You're right that cops won't just search for powder, ball, and caps--any adult can own those legally. But if they find a black-powder pistol that isn't on your pistol permit, they will search, and if they find them, you're in trouble even if the pistol has never been fired.
You're right that cops won't just search for powder, ball, and caps--any adult can own those legally. But if they find a black-powder pistol that isn't on your pistol permit, they will search, and if they find them, you're in trouble even if the pistol has never been fired.
Last edited:
- Status
