Carbon-15 .22 LR Opinions Sought

[Sven]

These are legal in California, and the test targets for all four guns had 1/3" 3-shot groups at 50 yards off a machine rest!


Professional Ordance Carbon 15 - .22 LR - GunBroker listing at $499

Professional Ordnance has taken a beating on the forums for problems on the Carbon 15 - but how has the .22LR edition fared in usage? Anyone have first or second-hand information to share about the rim-fire edition of this gun?

My thought was: a nice way to get used to at least the ergonomics of the AR-style guns, inexpensive practice. Has the A4-style flattop rail, so could mount optics, etc. It was about $569 (I recall), and came with a single magazine.

Now, I heard Bushmaster bought Para Ordnance... will Bushmaster be releasing a revised edition here in California? Maybe I should wait.

What sayeth the internet forum and this firearm, specifically in regards to the version chambered in .22 LR? How are the mags? Operation?

 

[BerettaNut92]

Oooooh!! OOOOH!!!!

Gosh those look neat!

 

[Sven]

pipsqueek had an update: bushmaster will release the prof.ord stuff in mid- to late-august apparently... wonder if they are refactoring, or just changing the logo?



Hope I can buy a .22 LR in CA... would be a fun gun if I knew it would work! 10/22 is getting the nod at this time.

 

[Telperion]

If you end up getting one of those, you so have to let me try it out!

 

[Sven]

Looks like someone else saw the same rack _I_ did, only there was one more at that time:

http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30959&highlight=Carbon

 

[Sactown]

Oh schnap!! Damn you Sven...damn you... PO was crap (friend has a Carbon 15), but if Bushmaster is now in charge I might have to get one. It's too bad DPMS can't sell their .22 rifle in Kali.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Can those Carbon-15 lowers be adapted to a 223 upper? Not interested in doing that but just wondering how they can import it into Calif? Love to get one of those DPMS Molon Labe marked lowers to build around my Kuehl 22 rimfire upper.

 

[Sven]

How do they get around the law? It's rimfire.

Not sure about conversion.

 

[gun-fucious]

i read somewhere that the plastic PO lower has the lower takedown pin holes in a different location

 

[50 Freak]

I have to warn those of us caught behind the Iron Curtain.

Although the Carbon 15 in 22lr is a rimfire and should be exempt, it will (with a change of the buffer tube and parts, will take a 223 Carbon 15 upper) (ask me how I know ) And we all know the how the DOJ feels about the creation of an "illegal assault weapon".

Have had a dealer call the DOJ and that was their response. Whether they will come after you is another story, but if you do buy a Carbon 15 in 22lr, it might be a good idea to also buy a big jar of vaseline.

Take the warning however you want to.

 

[Sven]

50:

Thanks. That makes the rifle more attractive to me... if I move out of state. Definitely increases re-sale value to folks outside CA.

Does the Carbon 15 take standard AR mags?

-s

 

[50 Freak]

yes the ProOrd 22 will take standard AR mags, In fact, the ProOrd 22 and ProOrd 223 lowers are identical.

Use the information as you will

 

[Sven]

Wow, so nobody has shot one of these, eh?

 

[50 Freak]

Very very accurate with match ammo. Pretty good reliability (don't know for sure yet as my friends has only put 40 rounds through his). Very light recoil, with a little front heavy because of the heavy barrel.

I'd would buy one without any hesitation if I knew they were okay with the DOJ.

 

[Sven]

If the DOJ comes to take it from me, fine. It will be a hell of a story here on THR and I could do something about that then. But, at $579 (plus tax, etc.), the thing is not going to be the most expensive rifle in my collection.

I'm thinking that this gun would make an EXCELLENT highpower training rifle, for when I leave this state.

Has anyone other than 50 Freak shot this gun before? I really really want to hear from someone with experiences with this gun before I take the plunge.

Best Regards,

-s

 

[SkaerE]

$579 (plus tax, etc.)

damn, better be one sweet shooting 22!

i'd like to hear more as well, but crap, thats a lot of money for a 22.

what kind of mags does it use?

does it have a match 22 barrel (or a 22 barrel made for a 22lr, not a 223)

 

[Gary H]

As posted elsewhere, I sent my Carbon 15 back to Bushmaster for repair. I purchased it in 1999 and never expected them to repair it without a hefty charge. It never extracted properly. I understood that the early Carbon 15's were intentionally designed with non-AR bolts, but that was a case of bad engineering. Anyway, Ron in Lake Havasu City, told me that Bushmaster would be applying their lifetime warranty to all Carbon 15's and that they would bring mine up to the latest version at no charge to me. He told me that my gun would be absolutely reliable from now on. They have been working hard to find the flaws and to fix them. They have to do this, or their warranty will drive them to the poor house. My gun is back in my safe, but hasn't yet made it to the range. The question of the .22LR edition is a good one, but my bet is that it is not California legal...for reasons stated above. I would get a letter from the DOJ, or buy it in state from a large dealer.

 

[Sven]

Talked to the gunshop: they told me they've spoken with the DOJ and have approval to sell these.

They took a Carbon-15 lower to a gunshow and tried to attach a normal AR upper - no dice, not without seriously modifying the lower, which would be a felony.

So, '50 Freak', where's your proof that this is possible without modifying the lower?

-s

 

[45R]

Sven Thats sweeeet!

I talked to some of the local gun shops recently and they wont sell them because of conflicting information.

Guess if its gets the DOJ stamp of approval and letter its all good


Bring it to the next meet


45R

 

[50 Freak]

Sven,

If your referring to Target Master in Milpitas, yeah they are selling the ProOrd 22s. And they (rather Wei) did try to match it to a standard AR upper and it did not fit, cycle or fire a snap cap.

I never said it would.

What I said is if you put a PO Carbon 15 upper on a PO Carbon 22 lower, it will fit, cycle and fire a round. I have tested this myself. The PO Carbon 15 upper never did fit on a mil-spec AR lower (actually there was a limited run that were made specifically for the AR lowers) but the majority of PO Carbon 15's were not mil-spec.

And 45R, ask Don and he will tell you that he called the DOJ himself and they said no. And it was they that told him that a PO Carbon 15 upper will fit on the PO Carbon 22 lower. So if they DOJ is aware of that, do you really want to take the chance?

If anyone can get a letter from the DOJ specifically saying the ProOrd 22 is legal in Cali, I'd be the first at the local gunstore to pick one up. But until then.....it's your call.

I personally have a grandfathered AR so it really doesn't matter to me. The PO Carbon 22 is just a overpriced 22 lr rifle.

Take it however you want.

 

[Sven]

I personally have a grandfathered AR so it really doesn't matter to me.

Well, 50, I don't have a grandfathered AR, so it does matter to me.

 

[45R]

Hey 50-

Its not worth risking my gun rights for something borderline. I inquired about the Carbon 15 .22s because I was curious when this THR thread was born.

Now if I did want one, I would get the DOJ letter of approval from whichever particular store was selling them.

I would then call the DOJ myself and get a written letter from them saying that the Carbon 15 .22s were legal.

Anyways bring out your granddaddy AR the next time we have a Yolo meet you still owe me a generic 3 gun match

If I could sum this thing up with what little gun knowledge that I claim to have....

Doesn't the Carbon 15.22 fall into the same line as the California Legal FALs? You can still have the FAL in CA with a Pin in the receiver minus the pistol grip....... So if the Carbon 15 .22s cant fit a standard upper.............


-45


Edit for spelling

 

[50 Freak]

45R

Yeah, but the PO Carbon 22 will take a PO Carbon 15 upper. But doing so would constitute creating a illegal assault rifle. MAYBE, if you don't posess a standard PO Carbon 15 upper, then MAYBE that would satisfy the DOJ, as there is no "intent". But to tell you the truth, thats too many "MAYBE's" for me. The thing that makes it a little too gray is the fact the PO Carbon 22s will take a standard AR mag whereas the FAB-10s will not.

Also getting a letter from the DOJ specifically naming a rifle and saying it was okay is like winning the lottery. The DOJ usually just sends you a copy of the laws and lets you make the decision.

I'll take you up on the 3 gun match. Contact me via e-mail. Not sure you have a shotgun, so you can use my 50 instead.... ;-)