Carrying weapons in old age.

[4RAR]

My grandfather carried a gun for 60 years (1942-2002, from his deployment in WW2 until death). Eventually he developed alzheimers. He kept his wits about him but in his later years incidents did occer, ie: checking his weapon into bouncers/barmen and forgetting to take it home, putting his gun in his pants and leaving the magazine at home, not covering it properly and being spoken to by LEO, just silly errors that could result in accidents or disturbance of peace. He also had shaky hands (this was not an issue as he never unholstered his weapon unless he intended to use it).

My question is: do you think it's appropriate for older folk to carry weapons when their health begins to fail? I find it hard to be objective, nothing should inhibit a mans right to be armed, but does the potential for accidents outweigh the need to defend oneself? Dont let my postcount deter your response, i am curious about this issue.

Thanks.

 

[sig220mw]

I feel age should not be a determining factor. However when your memory and faculties start to go, you can be a hazard to people around you if you happen to be armed. It's a hard call since all of us don't necessarily age the same.

 

[Mp7]

...

just like it should be regulated with driving licenses.

Everyone knows the story of lil ladies in their 80´s
demolishing a whole row of cars with their canoes,
because nobody took the keys away from them.

Once your perception goes down and the real-world becomes shady
imho it´s not a good idea to handle guns or cars.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Age has nothing to do with it. I have seen more than a few 'under thirties' that should not carry. As long as you have your faculties about you, it should not be a problem.

 

[CajunBass]

Age has nothing to do with it. It's how well your mental and physical facilities work.

My wife suffered a ruptured aneurysm in her brain six or seven months ago. She had carried her own gun for several years, and was a pretty decent shot, but as she recovers, both she and I recognize that her physical, and mostly her mental facilities are not back to "normal" yet. They may never be, but we're praying for a full recovery. In the meantime, HER Glock is in the safe waiting for her. It was not easy to have to tell her, "No, honey. I don't think you're up to carrying a gun just yet. It's my job to cover both of us now." when she asked me about it. On one hand, I know it hurt her to know that I didn't think she was up to it, although in the end, she agreed with me. On the other hand it did show progress to know that she was even thinking about it again.

Oh, she's 51. That may seem "old" to some of you, but I assure you it's not.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Depends on the individual circumstances. You can't make a hard and fast rule that at such and such age people are no longer in control of their faculties enough to carry a gun.

 

[sprithitler]

When people are or arent able to keep and bear arms should be decide by themselves, or failing that, their family or physician.
NOT by the Government.

 

[Mark K. C.]

You would have to put Self Defence on one side of the scale and Public Safety on the other and see which way the scale tips. Part of gun ownership is making responsible choices.

 

[jackstinson]

I'm older (aren't many of us here?) and I carry.
Barring a cure or prevention breakthrough in the next 10 years or so, I am facing the certainty of Alzheimer's. I've already instructed my wife what to do when the time comes that I become a hazard to myself and others.
Jack

 

[Treo]

I don't want to start a war (He said as he fired the opening shot) but I have a real hard time believing that the OP considers obvious signs of dementia in conjunction W/ a diagnosis of Alzhiemer's to be "just silly errors ". I further have some real diffulties believing that ANYONE would advocate such an individual being allowed unrestricted access to a firearm.

 

[FieroCDSP]

There was a story on here last year about a guy who was up there in age, and his favorite thing to do as a retiree was to go to the range and shoot his rifles. One of our members noticed his safety practices becoming a serious issue and stepped in to assist him, finally having to tell the gentleman that he probably shouldn't go to the range alone anymore. The man was wise enough to understand the risk and agreed. I think it was about six months later the fella passed on, but he still got to shoot his rifles in that time, safer with the extra set of eyes, but not as often.

Almost every day there's a story about an elderly person driving their car into a shop or the wrong way. The worst of these involve fatalities. Sometimes all it takes is a family member or friend to step in and explain. Other times it takes a serious mistake.
Part of being a responsible adult is knowing and admitting that you can't do something, or do it any more.

 

[Cougfan2]

Speaking as one whose mother is now suffering from Alzheimers, while she has never carried a firearm, I look at it the same as driving a car. At some point the roles reverse between children and their parents and we become the caretakers vs. the care receivers. We had to take the keys from my mother and from my wife's Father at one point. It was hard on their egos, but not as hard as seeing the results of harm done to an innocent because we refuesd to take the responsibility of taking a "weapon" away from someone who is no longer capable of using it wisely.

I told my son a while ago that if I ever get to that point I want him to take my guns away.

 

[mnrivrat]

Like many other things it should be up to behavior and capability - not age.

 

[The Tourist]

I believe that age should be considered a factor, like drivers licenses.

Slip up, lose the CCW. Problems with judgement in one area are a precursor. And we have all of the data, it's time to apply it. The issue is, it didn't come out the way most people thought.

New studies document that growth and maturity factors in the human brain do not fully evolve until the age of twenty-five. This explains why this demographic is plagued with unsafe sex, bizarre car accidents, drug consumption and binge drinking. One in four have STDs. They lead the nation in suicides.

We have no choice. The age for drivers licenses should be raised to 21, and the parameters for a CCW permit should clearly be moved to the age of 26 to ensure total brain development.

It seems draconian, but age clearly must be considered. The rights of a few do not out-weigh the safety of us all.

 

[freakshow10mm]

Wow. And you wonder why WI doesn't allow CCW.

 

[The Tourist]

Wow. And you wonder why WI doesn't allow CCW.

No, I don't actually believe this, I was just playing turnabout.

Many times--as in debates with liberals--the leglislation they profess are not conditions under which they have to live. It's easy for a geek to demand helmet legislation, he'll never ride a Harley.

And so it is with age. You can become a victim of Alzeimers in your early 50s. Many citizens of Communist Georgia ride horses after the age of 100. In fact, a citizen of that area became an advertising celebrity for eating yogurt. His mother was still alive.

In like manner, it's easy for a demographic of young people to judge the rights of older citizens, resulting in disenfranchisement. None of those laws would affect their rights and privileges.

But when I flipped the argument around--with viable data--now the idea becomes bizarre.

 

[beaucoup ammo]

FieroCDSP's story sounds very familiar. As a matter of fact he might be referring to "Joe" a WW2 and Korean War vet friend of mine who's only enjoyment left in life was going to the range.

I would drive him there and back. The Range Master and I had an agreement regarding "Joe" and the subject of safety as it related to his being at a public range with others around. I watched him like a hawk and all went well. He and passed away a few days after our last trip to the range watching "Band Of Brothers" I'd loaned him.

If an older person has their wits about them, they clearly understand the situation. Oh, they may not like it! And they'll yell and scream..but in the end, a real man respects the lives of others and places that above their shooting without control of their actions and the widening margin for error.

"Joe" went in his sleep and is buried at Fort San Houston National Cemetery here in San Antonio.

This thread affords me the chance to tell you guys that about 2 months after Joe's passing I was contacted by a lawyer informing me "Joe" had left his worldly possessions to me. I was honored.

 

[TIMC]

It all depends on the individual on when it is time to stop carrying. I have seen some that should never carry at all. My dad who is almost 80 and I just took our renewal class and while he may have some difficulty loading mags he still can if he takes his time. He is also a little shakey handed but can still hit the target. He scored 240 out of 250 on the shooting test which is not too bad for an old guy.
He is still a safe and accurate shooter that still has a few more years of carry time left. He can also knock them down with a rifle too.
Pic from last deer season...

 

[Jaws48]

I hunted with my grandfather and shot at his range behind his lifelong home until I was 34 years old. He taught me to shoot when I was a toddler. He was a safe and reliable weapons handler. The last time I saw him alive we went shooting, he was 94 at the time. His sight wasn't as good as it was in earlier years but he could still shoot better than most. He died 2 years later at home in bed with his Woodsman beside his bed and the 12 gauge Winchester in the gun rack above the door.

"When" is definitely individual dependent and it is not directly related to age. I have told my daughter, who is now 26, to take my weapons and car keys when it is time. I trust her to know when, no matter what I say. I am positive that I will not want to give them up but it will have to be done. As much as it may hurt, many of us may have to have someone to make those decisions for us in our later years.

Jaws

 

[FCFC]

At some point, it's up to a loving and caring son/daughter or friend to take dad's (or mom's) gun away. Hopefully, before someone gets too too likely to get hurt.

Age is an imperfect criterion but it has the huge advantage of being reliably measureable.

 

[catfish101]

There are exceptions to age. I work with a guy that is 80. Will be 81 in a couple of months. He drives a dump truck and runs equipment. He still has 20/20 vision.
The ole guy does look his age though.

Worked with another guy that is now either 77 or 78. He drives a truck also. He doesn't look his age.

I know these guys are exceptions and I would love to be in the shape they are in when or if I get to their age. There still should be exceptions to age.

BTW, The first guys dads lived to be 99. Died in a car crash that wasn't his fault.

 

[SAWBONES]

Apart from the fact that RKBA is a right rather than a privilege, it is competence, not chronological age, that should be the criterion for CCW.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Being 70 my opinion might be a little slanted.
But No, I don't think age should enter into most things. Ability should be the deciding factor.


I still fly my two birds. The thing is that being very experienced I know I'm not as sharp as I was 20 years ago, so I pay more attention to what I'm doing now.


The people to watch, old or young, are those that don't know their own limits.

 

[ArizonaTRex]

My Mother and Poppa carry and are in their 70's and CCW, I'll take their guns away when I have to pry it from their cold dead fingers OR they decide to quit carrying. And they have some sweet one too so I hope they leave them to me ( that's a hint Mom)

Like CajunBass my wife recently suffered medical problems - Guillain-Barré syndrome (that almost killed her and left her partially paralyzed) diagnosing that disease lead to the Dr's to find out she also had Cerebral arteriovenous malformation which then required brain surgery. Both problems render gun handling a tad difficult for her right now-but if anything threatens her family you bet little Annie Oakley will do what ever is necessary!


(Off topic-with all the food poisoning-tomatoes-being in the news everyone please Google Guillain-Barré syndrome. ANYONE, at any age can get it, it is usually-but not always preceded by intestinal or bronchial trouble, a flu shot can bring it on.This autoimmune disease progresses in HOURS and if not caught in time it leads to paralysis and/or death. And it seems pretty common for an uncommon disease)

 

[.38 Special]

This explains why this demographic (25 and under) is plagued with unsafe sex, bizarre car accidents, drug consumption and binge drinking.

Speaking as someone who held up his end of that deal well into his thirties, I'll second (or third, fourth, or whatever) the idea that age is just a number and that it has to be undertaken on a case-by-case basis, hopefully by caring and loving family members.