carrying with one in the chamber

[BCC]

I carry a Sig 232 without one in the chamber. Accordingly, it's sop for me to rack the gun while starting to point. I'm not recommending this for others but the 2 factors that influence my current position are: Weapon cannot be discharged accidentally by me or other. It won't be readily apparent to an assailant how to fire the weapon in case I lose control.

I'm not saying those are great arguments, but they work for me at this stage of carry.

 

[JohnKSa]

Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the safety is off....

A Glock with 1 in the chamber would fall under Condition 0 right?

No.

There is no hammer, it's a striker fired gun and the striker is only half-cocked when a round is chambered. The spring is compressed to half its "cocked" compression which means that there is about 25% of the energy stored in it that will be there when the gun is actually "cocked".

Without your finger being on the trigger, there are 3 safeties engaged, those safeties disengage as the trigger is pulled.

The only time a Glock is in condition zero is when the trigger has been pulled nearly all the way to the rear.

 

[kyo]

I will want to carry my p345 with the safety on, and a chamber in the round. Even though the trigger pull is crazy long I would still rather keep it on. All it takes is my thump to flick it on the way out. No worries.
So condition 2.

 

[ScareyH22A]

I carry a Sig 232 without one in the chamber. Accordingly, it's sop for me to rack the gun while starting to point. I'm not recommending this for others but the 2 factors that influence my current position are: Weapon cannot be discharged accidentally by me or other. It won't be readily apparent to an assailant how to fire the weapon in case I lose control.

I'm not saying those are great arguments, but they work for me at this stage of carry.

Condition 3 means one less round I'll have to shoot which is definitely not an option for me.

 

[WC145]

Animal Mother-
I got it and it made me chuckle, thanks!

As for the subject at hand - NO TOUCH TRIGGER NO GO BANG - I don't think I can say it any simpler unless someone knows a single syllable word for trigger.:banghead:

 

[Davek1977]

my cousin accidently shot himself
in the lower stomach the bullet
went out his upper leg.. he was taking his gun out of the holster
his dog jumped on him and the gun went off, luckly my cousin knew what to do to stop the bleeding
the EMT's were surprised he didn't pass out from the loss of blood he was awake when they arrived
so no it's not safe to have one in the chamber. my cousin is lucky to be alive

Without fully knowing the details of what happened, I can't help but assume at some point, the trigger was pulled, as thats what tends to make guns go off. Had he kept his finger clear of the trigger, it wouldn't have mattered if the dog jumped on him or not. Guns don't just "go off" and if one has a proper holster, a normally functioning firearm and decent gun handling skills, theres no reason to NOT carry chambered. Millions do it daily without consequence. Theres exceptions to every rule....but do you not drive because some people that do have had an accident?

I think its fair to say your cousin may not want to carry with a round chambered, but to imply its inherently dangerous to do so is incorrect.

 

[tipoc]

Just a question, lately, and I mean the last few months, I've heard this term being used..."Condition 0". Where did that come from? It's recent.

Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
Condition 1 - Also called "cocked and locked", this means that a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety is on.
Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber, the hammer is uncocked.
Condition 3 - There is no round in the chamber, the hammer is uncocked but a fully loaded magazine is inserted in the mag well.
Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, the hammer is uncocked and there is no magazine inserted in the mag we

Now the 4 conditions that most of us are familiar with come from Jeff Cooper and are different from the older "conditions" used by the military regarding the storage of weapons. They apply to sidearms with manual safeties like the 1911, BHP, etc. Clearly they do not apply to striker fired weapons or to guns with decockers both of which are incapable of Condition One. But in the last coupla months I've read a few references to condition 0 where did that come from?

Also under what conditions would a person carry a cocked weapon, with a round in the chamber and no safety engaged? Excluding actual shooting of course.

tipoc

 

[tipoc]

he was taking his gun out of the holster
his dog jumped on him and the gun went off, luckly my cousin knew what to do to stop the bleeding
the EMT's were surprised he didn't pass out from the loss of blood he was awake when they arrived
so no it's not safe to have one in the chamber. my cousin is lucky to be alive

Either your cousin, or the dog, pulled the trigger.

tipoc

 

[InRemorse]

I started with a revolver and became interested in trying a semi automatic. The semi automatics with doube action had trigger pulls way too hard to pull. I couldn't see myself hitting anything with that kind of trigger pull. Carrying cocked and loaded with safety on sounded scary, but I'm used to it now. I bought a single action only with a medium trigger pull. Having one in the chamer gives tremendous comfort. I can pull the gun and deactivate the safety with my right thumb in one motion. It's a great ccw, single stack, spare magazine on the other hip.

 

[jackstinson]

Either your cousin, or the dog, pulled the trigger.

It was the dog.....it's always the dog.
The post said that "the gun went off"...it just went off. How it did so is a total mystery and the dog ain't talking. Guns will sometimes do that you know. It's best to keep it unloaded. Uh huh.......
BTW: The dog ate my homework also.

 

[John E.]

semi-auto, DA, one in barrel, hammer down, safety off?

Hey all,

Is the following condition safe or to be avoided - double action semi-automatic, one in the barrel, hammer down, safety off?

 

[rbernie]

Is the following condition safe or to be avoided - double action semi-automatic, one in the barrel, hammer down, safety off?

Depends on the weapon in question. The 1911, for example, is perfectly safe in this configuration. I do know that many popular DA/SA pistols (e.g. CZ 75B, P226, etc.) have firing pin blocks to help facilitate safe carry of the pistol with the hammer down. The theory is that, since the firing pin can't move while the trigger is not being pulled, you can have the hammer down and still not have a blow to the hammer push the firing pin into the primer and cause a discharge.

 

[Davionmaximus]

How do you discharge a Glock removing it from the holster?? The only way I can think is if he put his finger on the trigger.
I carry a Glock 19. Just have to pay attention. Always. Too easy to become casual.

 

[John E.]

Depends on the weapon in question.

In this case, an Astra .380

 

[TIMC]

One in the pipe is the only way I carry. My prefered carry weapon is a 1911. I own a Glock but I don't really care to carry it even though I know they are perfectly safe to carry if you pay attention and have a good holster.

 

[rbernie]

In this case, an Astra .380

If it's a Constable (or any of the 300/400/600 series), it does not have a firing pin block. The only way to see if it's safe to carry hammer-down is to determine if the firing pin protrudes into the chamber when the hammer is fully lowered. If it does not, then it should be safe.

But you'll need to be very crisp in terms of determining if the firing pin can touch the primer with the hammer down.

 

[lesterg3]

With my pistols I believe that it is safe to have one in the tube.

With me, my left hand is partially disabled and while I am still pretty quick with it I feel safer not having to rack one in.

 

[John E.]

But you'll need to be very crisp in terms of determining if the firing pin can touch the primer with the hammer down.

rbernie, thanks for the info - I believe is a Constable, I'll verify when I get home.

How do I go about testing this? I'll go to safety on in the meantime.

 

[wrs840]

For Autos with decocker safeties, It seems that the carry-position intended by the design would be condition two. I'm wondering what arguments there may be against that. It seems like a good idea to me.

Les

 

[shooter1]

Can't believe this topic keeps coming up! Anyone carrying a firearm has an obligation to learn how to handle and operate it safely. I have seen several "Unintended Discharges" in my 50+years of shooting and more than half that carrying a gun for a living. I can only recall two that would be an "Accidental Discharge", one a broken firing pin on a 1911, the other a slam fire on an M-16. All the others were "Negligent Discharges". All caused by mishandling of the firearm. I carry any firearm fully loaded and ready for immediate use regardless of type. I would suggest anyone not prepared to do the same rethink why they carry in the first place
str1

 

[rbernie]

For Autos with decocker safeties, It seems that the carry-position intended by the design would be condition two. I'm wondering what arguments there may be against that. It seems like a good idea to me.

Usually, an auto with a decocker has a firing pin block, designed to keep the hammer from hitting the firing pin into the primer inadvertently should the hammer notch break. You could make the argument that the firing pin block safety could break from the blow that broke the hammer notch, but that kind of cascade failure would seem to be pretty far-fetched.

I carried my Sigs decocked and reliant upon this safety system for many years without fear. How many ADs have you heard of from Sigs that had their hammer and FP safeties broken?

How do I go about testing this?

You can remove the firing pin and measure it; if its shorter than the channel in which it resides, then it cannot protrude from both ends (hammer-side and chamber-side) simultaneously. Alternately, you can insert a brass rod or similar down the barrel of an UNLOADED gun and see if it moves when the hammer is gently decocked to rest on the firing pin stop.

Measuring the firing pin and firing pin channel is the best way to know.

 

[Cap'n Jack Burntbeard]

I carry my Ruger P97DC with the chamber empty, since it has no safety, just a decocker.
If it had a decock safety like an M9 then i would carry with one in the pipe.

 

[Justin]

If you are carrying a weapon with an empty chamber, it indicates that you have not been taught or trained on that weapon to a degree that is adequate. If you've had negligent discharge with that weapon, you are very plainly either in need of further training, or are choosing to ignore basic safety procedures.

In either case, you really should take a proper safety class that focuses on proper use of a defensive pistol.

If you're still uncomfortable, then change your method of carry and/or your pistol.

For as long as I've been an admin here, you'd think I'd be inured to threads like this. But, quite frankly, every time a discussion like this comes up I'm flabbergasted at the number of people who carry a defensive pistol but don't seem to even possess a basic grasp of how to safely handle a pistol.

 

[Mainsail]

Carrying with the chamber empty means you are assuming that you will always have both hands free if you should be thrust into a self defense situation. I carry openly every day and I seldom have both hands free. My off-hand is often holding a laptop, umbrella, phone, camera, or whatever else.

Without starting an off-topic argument, it is dangerous for simple, carless, or stupid people to carry firearms (or any other dangerous items). All guns ARE NOT always loaded, if they were we couldn’t and wouldn’t be able to dry-fire, clean, or function check them. Simple people simplified the rule from “All guns are always loaded until you have positively verified that they are not” down to “All guns are always loaded”. They lie. They say one thing (all guns are always loaded) but their very actions (dry-firing etc) prove they really don’t believe the rule. If you are willing to bend the rules from time to time because “you know better” then you are complacent or careless. Know the rules - follow the rules, that’s how you stay safe. If the rule, as written, is too complex for someone to understand, they need more training or they are too inept to safely handle a firearm.

Guns do not ‘just go off’ anymore (if they ever did). A modern firearm properly handled, carried, or stored cannot discharge accidently. As has been mentioned, if you are uncomfortable carrying with a round in the chamber, get some training. If you can safely operate a motor vehicle fully fueled and running, a little handgun shouldn’t be any more difficult.

 

[dontshakepandas]

My carry gun always has one in the chamber. Why? Because I can't get two in the chamber...

Ok, really, carry however you want, but with proper handling and by following the four rules every gun is safe. Without proper handling and by breaking the four rules, every gun is unsafe. That means it is all up to you. If you don't like that responsibility, it is time to sell your guns.