Case Reaming - Necessary?

[cal01]

I have been reloading my hand gun ammo for many years using Lee Classic Loaders.

I recently purchased a Lee Zero Error Target Loader for my .243 cartridges. Ths loader has a case "reamer" and stipulates that after a case has been once-fired it should be inserted into the sizing die and while there the reamer should be used to ream the inside wall of the neck.

This is the first time I have ever had to do this and I am wondering why? If I were using a press and standard dies would this still be a required step? If not, why does the Lee Zero Error loader require the step?

Lastly, does anyone have any experience with these old Lee Zero Error loaders? Are they reliable, or should I just get a press and a set of .243 dies and be done with it?

Thanks!

 

[rcmodel]

Neck reaming is seldom if ever necessary or desirable.
Unless you are reforming brass to a smaller caliber and create excess case neck thickness in the process.

I am not familiar with the Lee Zero Error Target Loader.
Because it has been obsolete longer then I can remember.

I think they were made by Richard Lee's first company that folded and went under many years ago.
The present Lee Reloading company does not make them or support them.

should I just get a press and a set of .243 dies and be done with it?

YES!!! You should!!

rc

 

[Edarnold]

For a tight 'Target' chambered .243, neck TURNED cases may be necessary. Reaming the inside of a case does nothing to eliminate uneven neck wall thickness, which starts the bullet off center or even tipped. As I found out when I started turning case-necks for my own custom .243, commercial brass necks are often really lumpy and lopsided. Small thickness variations in the body of the case are magnified as they draw then reduce the much smaller neck. Of course you can get much better neck uniformity with Lapua brass, it's just three times as expensive as the US stuff.

Long story shorter, unless the necks have thickened from repeated firing so much as to result in oversize finished rounds, don't bother. If you do need to reduce the neck thickness, do it by turning and get proper size and concentricity in one operation.

IMHO

 

[lencac]

Keep in mind also that as brass is removed from the neck, doesn't matter insider or out, when that case is neck sized again it will not return the inside dia. to the proper size for reseating a projectile and the neck will split after a couple uses. I know the thought behind neck turning mentally. It's all about bench-rest shooting on top of powdered rests. Because those guys do everything to an extreme they want to see the case neck thickness the same dia. all the way around it's circumference so the bullet seats on a perfect centerline and when fired releases the projectile the same all the way around it circumference. Most factory brass is in the .001 to .0015 in. range variance.
A .308 in. dia. bullet seats into a case that has an inside dia. of .305 in. This results in a .003 in. press-fit. So when the neck is resized the inside dia. will be .306 to .3065 in. That's a loss of .001 to .0015 in. press-fit. The neck gets work-hardened and brittle much faster also. Not really ideal for practical use except off the bench.

Hey RC ?????????? ...............

 

[Jim Watson]

The old Lee ads said the action of the reamer was like a boring bar, not a piloted reamer, and would therefore give uniform neck thickness. They claimed that a benchrest record was held with ammo loaded on one.

Since you actually HAVE the gadget, why don't you try it out both ways, with and without reaming, and report to the 21st century on how the old timers did things?

Rant:
This is a common form of Internet Paralysis.
Q. I have this (gun, loader, scope, gadget), how well does it perform?
Me. Try it out and YOU tell US.

 

[lencac]

RC, a long time ago we were in a discussion about a new rifle I had. My Gruning Precision in 30.06, 27" in. barrel.

Anyway, I was blah, blah, blahing about flying Sierra 168 gr. to a 1000 yrds. You said something to the effect of "forget the 168 gr. and load a 190 gr. on top of 61.0gr. of Reloder 22 (not that I could get any of that), it goes 2900 fps easily" That's at least 2 gr. over the max load in the manuals.
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, let me tell ya You were spot on Been shooting it with that load for about a year. It will produce 2920 fps. with the chrony set 8 yrds. from the barrel, and pie plate accuracy at a 1000 yrds. Still use the original 100 pieces of Winchester brass I started with.

YOU R DA MAN! .... man

 

[243winxb]

Lee Target Model Loader

Just get a press and a set of .243 dies and be done with it. You will need to full length resize soon or later. I used Lee on 243 and 30-06. Waste of $$ The reamer makes the cut while in the neck sizing die. This gives very light neck tension on the bullet after a few loading. Best for a single shot rifle.

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[918v]

Keep in mind also that as brass is removed from the neck, doesn't matter insider or out, when that case is neck sized again it will not return the inside dia. to the proper size for reseating a projectile and the neck will split after a couple uses.

No it won't.

The tool is designed to remove between .0005" and .001" of neck wall, just enough to uniform it and subsequently remove any doughnuts that may form due to repeated resizing. It improves accuracy by making neck tension uniform. Any stress induced by reaming is easily cured by annealing.

 

[243winxb]

Keep in mind also that as brass is removed from the neck, doesn't matter insider or out, when that case is neck sized again it will not return the inside dia. to the proper size for reseating a projectile and the neck will split after a couple uses.

The tool is designed to remove between .0005" and .001" of neck wall,

2 wrongs dont make a right. This 2nd statement would apply to outside neck turning, not the Lee tool.

 

[Offfhand]

Quoted from above post:
"Keep in mind also that as brass is removed from the neck, doesn't matter insider or out, when that case is neck sized again it will not return the inside dia. to the proper size for reseating a projectile and the neck will split after a couple uses."

This is a rather remarkable statement and defies logical explanation. I neck turn cases for most calibers I load for, including hunting calibers, and never have a problem with split necks, even after dozens of loadings. And I NEVER anneal either.

 

[918v]

2 wrongs dont make a right. This 2nd statement would apply to outside neck turning, not the Lee tool.

Please explain. How much neck wall does the Lee tool remove?

 

[Walkalong]

Neck reaming or neck turning must be done correctly just like any other reloading operation.

With 6PPC cases formed from .220 Russian, I used to ream and then turn the necks to be a very tight fit in a .262 neck chamber.

For .222 Mag I used to neck turn just enough to clean up 90% of the outside.

Never any problems from neck splitting.

I am not familiar with the old Lee tool and can only hazard a guess as to how it works and what the intention was, although I do have an idea.

 

[klausman]

Setting aside reforming brass from another caliber, It seems to me that any brass you remove from a case after repeated firing, whether from reaming, turning or trimming has to come from somewhere down the case. In particular with bottle neck cases, it comes from just above the casehead. That being the case, doesn't that mean that if you are removing a lot of brass that you should be watching for incipient head separation?

 

[243winxb]

Please explain. How much neck wall does the Lee tool remove?

Its like drilling a hole with a bit. The reamer is going to make the hole/neck the same diameter every time. How much or how little neck brass it removes, depends on the wall thickness. The neck is held in the die while reaming. When finished reaming, the neck wall thickness will always be the same. Give or take a tiny bit of brass spring back, when removed from the die, the insided neck diameter will be the same.

 

[gamestalker]

If it were me, I would just buy a press and be done with it. I know nothing about the Lee loader you are referring to, but it sounds like it might not be the easiest, or most practical system to work with.

GS

 

[918v]

Its like drilling a hole with a bit. The reamer is going to make the hole/neck the same diameter every time. How much or how little neck brass it removes, depends on the wall thickness. The neck is held in the die while reaming. When finished reaming, the neck wall thickness will always be the same. Give or take a tiny bit of brass spring back, when removed from the die, the insided neck diameter will be the same.

And how does that make what I said wrong exactly?

 

[ranger335v]

Assuming that inside neck boring bar device is a simple reamer is an eror.

I don't have one of Lee's old target loaders but I know about it and it's amusing to read all the expert advice while similtaneously admitting no knowledge of it; I wish I did have several of them just for that boring device. They can be found on eBay occasionally but they go for more than I'm willing to bid from others who also know what it is, I have a good neck turner so it's not practical for me to pay the going price for one today.

That excellant little kit was patented and marketed by Dick Lee's brother and we lost it when Lee Custom Engineering went under.

 

[243winxb]

And how does that make what I said wrong exactly?

Lets just say i am wrong, you win. How much or how little neck brass it removes, depends on the wall thickness.

 

[918v]

RCBS will make you a ream die that does the same thing. You run the case into the die. Then you run the reamer through the top of the die. I have one for my .22-250. I first turn the neck to clean up any high spots, then inside ream while the neck is centered with the body. That way I get perfect cases. I'm removing maybe .001". It's alot of work, though.

After about 5-6 reloads a doughnut forms at the vase of the neck. It interferes with seating cuz the brass at the base has to be displaced by the bullet. This in turn causes the bolt to close harder if you bump the shoulder minimally.

The reamer removes doughnuts in a turn or two.

I also have neck reamers for my Wilson trimmer. They are alot more convenient. But the neck isn't supported during reaming.

The worst neck reamer ever is the KKM neck turner/inside reamer pilot. It's a nightmare to use.

 

[Woolecox]

Doughnuts

Inside neck reaming is only necessary if you are having problems with a "doughnut" forming at the neck-shoulder junction of your brass. It is usually worse (destroys accuracy) if you are shooting long bullets that must be seated to fit a magazine. Here is a good article on the 243 and 243 Ackley:

Accurate Shooter 243

I shoot a Heavy Varmint 243 Ackley Improved using 105 and 107 grain bullets. After every 3rd firing or so a doughnut will form due to the neck only being partially resized (neck sizing). I run mine through a Wilson neck reamer and the doughnut is gone. It does not affect the thickness of the neck if done properly.

If you don't have a rifle/load combination that is capable of sub .5 MOA accuracy, I would not worry about neck reaming.