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Cc about to be legal in pfz's in michigan!!!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by ezkl2230, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Well-Known Member


    The bill now goes to Gov. Snyder, who has promised to sign it.

    Beginning in March, with the submission of an application for an exemption to carry concealed in a pistol free zone, 9 hours additional training and more rounds fired, CPL holders will be able to CC in pistol free zones!!! No additional cost for the exemption if the request is submitted at the time of application or renewal, $20 all other times

    The downside - open carry in pistol free zones will no longer be permitted. Gov. Snyder insisted on this as a condition of his signature. We will have to work to get that reinstated.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  2. Clipper

    Clipper Well-Known Member

    ... And this POS gives 'no weapons' signs the power of law here, too. This is a step backwards.
  3. smalls

    smalls Well-Known Member

    They did end up sneaking that in after all?

    Snyder has gone back and forth on this a thousand times. I wouldn't be surprised if he still vetoed it.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  4. Clipper

    Clipper Well-Known Member

    The CC only snobs would rather have bad legislation than have to OC in PFZs, even if it led to OC being outlawed. After all, can't upset the anti's, can we?
  5. TheGloriousTachikoma

    TheGloriousTachikoma Well-Known Member

    Well, at least I don't have to worry about finding a holster for the CZ with a retention strap. :(
  6. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

    Always amazes me how some folks whine when they can't shove their agenda in the face of antis instead of being glad they got more ccw freedoms

    WTH is wrong with you?
  7. chris in va

    chris in va Well-Known Member

    So what qualifies as a 'pfz'? Schools?
  8. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Well-Known Member

    By giving no guns signs force of law, and removing a right CPL carriers had (OC in a PFZ), we lost. We won a bit too, but in some respects, we have taken a step backwards.

    In order to CC in a PFZ (and remember, before we could OC in a PFZ with a CPL) we now have to undergo advanced training (not cheap) and pay more for a license (or wait for a renewal). I don't have an additional $300 laying around. So CC'ers lost in the PFZ battle, and we lose in the "No Guns signs' battle.

    And you are asking WTH is wrong with US?

    Chris in VA: Schools, Bars, Hospitals, any public area seating more than 2500 people (i.e. theater, sports arena, etc.), places of worship and I think there are one or two more I'm forgetting, are Pistol Free Zones.

    Prior to this bill, anyone with a CPL could open carry in a PFZ. Now, or rather once the bill goes into effect, unless you have the PFZ exemption checked on your CPL, you cannot carry a gun in any way, shape or form in a PFZ.

    Any updates on HB5225, getting rid of the Pistol purchase permit and hand gun registry?
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  9. smalls

    smalls Well-Known Member

    Pistol Free Zones:
    Schools, hospitals, casinos, bars, entertainment facilities that seat 2500 or more, stadiums and churches.

    I did hear that schools would not be allowed to post signs.
  10. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Well-Known Member

    Yeah. That was decided earlier this year after a young fellow OC'd to his polling place in a public school and almost got arrested for it. They finally determined that he did nothing wrong. Schools wanted to post, but were told they couldn't because they aren't private property.
  11. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Well-Known Member

    Gutted by amendments put forward by the MSP. Still have purchase permits and registries. This is from the NRA-ILA alert today:

  12. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Well-Known Member

    Actually, that has been the case for quite some time. This is what handgunlaw.us has to say (the article was written by an attorney on the board of MCRGO):

  13. smalls

    smalls Well-Known Member

    Aah, I remember that. That's good, at least.

    So do signs carry the force of law always now, or just PFZ's?
  14. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Well-Known Member

    The way I'm reading this is everywhere a sign is posted, it has force of law. I'm pretty sure this will encompass PFZ exempt license holders (other than law enforcement).

    Can't say I'm overly excited about this.
  15. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Well-Known Member

    Eh. So they took the steak and left the gristle. Fantastic.
  16. smalls

    smalls Well-Known Member

    I can't imagine anyone is. Well, except those anti's.

    Truth is, I've only ever seen one sign. But I've never really looked for them, either. I never had to care. This is seeming less and less like a win.
  17. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Well-Known Member

    Business owners (whose property is considered "private property" - something I dispute), regardless of whether their business was considered a pfz under the law, have had the right to post their property as no carry zones for years. That isn't new under SB 59 or HB 5225 - it actually goes back to 2006, when access to CPL was expanded in Michigan. That's why I have been fighting to get a law passed that I have entitled the Hoven Self Defense Act, named for a Michigan pharmacist who used his legally owned sidearm in violation of Walgreen's "no escalation" policy to drive off two armed robbers who had physically abused store employees; he was fired. My proposed bill states,

    By the way, Bloomberg sank a little money - and misinformation - into Michigan to try to keep these bills from being passed in ANY form; He was the major backer of the MSP amendments. He noted after HB 5225 was passed in its gutted form that this proves that the NRA can't "give marching orders to Lansing." The AP release containing this statement from Bloomie was a complete pack of lies. This is what it said:

    First, the article states that the bill had failed, when, in fact, it had passed and been sent to the House for a concurrence vote (since it had been amended). It was passed late last night.

    Second, HB 5225 simply replaced Michigan's outdated background check system with the federal NICS system - it didn't call for the end of background checks.

    Third, it would have eliminated pistol purchase permits and owner registries, treating pistol purchases the same way long gun purchases are treated.

    I short, it didn't get a single fact right.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  18. fatcat4620

    fatcat4620 Well-Known Member

    So you guys have up some rights so you could CC in places where you could only OC before?
  19. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Well-Known Member

    Yes. We can, with additional class time, now cc in a pfz.
  20. ezkl2230

    ezkl2230 Well-Known Member

    This bill marks the first time in Michigan's history that a limit has been placed on open carry, and I believe it represents a violation of the federal court case Woollard v. Sheridan. The only reason it was limited is because the governor and a handful of people found OC in a pfz objectionable, not because CPL holders openly carrying peacefully in pfz's have caused any problems. That does not meet the legal standard required under Woollard:

    Frankly, I think the NRA, MCRGO, or MOC need to file a suit challenging this limitation. There is ample legal precedent to have that portion of the new law overturned.

    In the meantime, I am still working to get my own bill, the Hoven Self-Defense Act passed. It states,


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