CCI Small Rifle Fail to Fire

[Nature Boy]

I loaded some .223 this weekend and headed to the range. I had 3 out of 20 CCI BR4 fail to fire in a bolt gun. No light primer strikes and primers seated below flush. Seems like a high rate of failure for a component that rarely fails.

I'm getting close to 10k rounds in my short reloading career and use CCI, Federal and Winchester. I've only had 4 primers fail to fire: the three yesterday and one LR a while back, all CCI.

 

[buck460XVR]

Did you try firing the rounds a second time?

 

[Nature Boy]

I did not.

 

[Curator]

Review your primer storage and loading procedure. Are you lubing cases too much? Some lubes like WD40 can penetrate into primer pockets and cause misfires. Priming after wet-tumbling where cases appear to be dry but a small amount of water remains inside the case will cause this too.

 

[Nature Boy]

I load in the house, climate controlled.

I use Dillon lube and dry tumble everything after sizing.

I'll pull them tonight and see if they're missing the compound or anvil. I'll also spot check what I have left of that box, maybe 600-700 left

These are relatively new primers, purchased ~6 months ago

 

[dmurdach]

before pulling them, if you have the chance, I would try firing them a second time.

 

[IMtheNRA]

Shake them to see if you can hear powder inside. It's more likely that you loaded them without powder than having all these dud primers.

 

[Nature Boy]

They have powder. The primers didn't ignight and I don't have a bullet stuck half way down the barrel. I'll know more when I pull them. I'll post some pictures

 

[Axis II]

I had a few cci 400 not go off with light strikes. had to have the firing pin replaced and the spring.

 

[Average Joe]

Wow, I use CCI all the time for .233 and never had a bad one, let us know what you find out after you pull the bullets.

 

[Barrelgal]

I've never in my reloading life experienced a single mis-fire. But in my opinion and what I've seen at the range, almost all are the result of a shallow seated primer which is determined by attempting to fire it more than just once.

Just because a primer is seated below flush does not mean it is completely seated to the bottom of the pocket. In other words visual inspection has nothing at all to do with determining whether it's seated to the bottom of the pocket. It's important to visually inspect for high primers resulting from a shallow pocket, but that's about all visual inspection accomplishes. Primers need to be seated until they are definitively all the way home so that the anvil is slightly preloaded. I use a priming die, which allows more consistent seating depth, and I can better feel the slight amount of resistance, almost a cam over effect, which indicates to me it's home.

The other things, though not 100%, is always attempt to fire the cartridge a second or even third time. If it goes bang the primer was most definitely not seated completely.

BG

 

[shooter1]

When I load on my 650, I have great feel when seating primers. I can feel the primer when it bottoms out in the pocket. I've loaded in excess of 70k of CCI primers, mostly SPP/SRP. I don't remember any misfires that weren't due to primers not fully seated. I've got a batch of 25k CCI SSP on hand, if I have problems with this current batch, I'll post the info here in this thread.
str1

 

[Nature Boy]

I agree fellas. Got to be something in my method/process causing it. I'll add that these were all loaded into new Nosler cases. Might be a contributor, might not. I got busy last night and didn't pull them, but here's a pic of 2 of them. I'll pull them and save one to try and fire again.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Why not safe all 3 for a second firing attempt or at least two. If all fire on a second strike you will know they were not bottomed. That would be a better test that trying to figure outcast happened by my looking at the components.

 

[buck460XVR]

I did not.

The reason I asked is because the most common reason for primer failure is not the primer, but the fact it was not seated deep enough. Especially when one has numerous failures in the same batch.. Even tho they may be flush or just below flush, they may not be seated deep enough that the anvil is in contact with the bottom of the pocket. If they fire on the second try, the answer is obvious. If they don't, then at least you've ruled out one possibility. CCIs for me seat the hardest of all the primers I use. I've yet to crush or detonate a primer while seating them, regardless of how deep I seat them, and I've learned to error on the side of too deep as opposed to not deep enough.

 

[mdi]

I tell new reloaders to forget "below flush measurements" and just push the primer all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket. I have used this method for 30 years and can count on one hand the misfires I've had.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Try measuring the pocket depth of the fired cases for comparison. For the rounds that didn't ignite try pulling the bullet and inspecting, leaving the primer in place. Then chamber the empty case and see if the primer ignites. An advantage to living alone, testing in the house and the neighbors don't complain.

If you are seating on the press, try hand seating and measuring the depth of the primer.

 

[Walkalong]

I tell new reloaders to forget "below flush measurements" and just push the primer all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket. I have used this method for 30 years and can count on one hand the misfires I've had.

Yep, bottom them out, regardless of how far below flush that is.

 

[Nature Boy]

I'm loading on a 650 and I do try to seat them as deep as they will go and check to make sure they're below flush. I'm wondering if the fact this was new brass the pockets we just tight enough to keep some of them from fully seating and giving me the false sense that I had gone all the way

 

[W.E.G.]

Sigh.

OP, what CASE GAGE are you using?

 

[Nature Boy]

I use a Hornady headspace competitor and bump the shoulder back .003

 

[W.E.G.]

I think you meant "comparator."

Now, use your comparator several of your misfire rounds to some factory-loaded ammo - preferably new-production (not reloads) Lake City brass.

Tell us whether your comparison indicates a difference in base-to-shoulder dimension.

 

[Blue68f100]

You could also weight the rounds and compare to others loaded. With rifle there is enough powder to detect if one is missing powder. Not so with pistol most of the time. With a rifle round, no powder, the bullet normally does not move like a small pistol round. So it's possible that they may not have any powder.

The only primer failure I had fail was missing a anvil, not counting Wolf SP.

 

[Nature Boy]

Pulled one of the failures and the primers looks identical to an unfired primer with anvil in tact. That leads me to believe I had not seated them deep enough. I'll save the other two to try and refire them and if they ignite then it's mystery solved



W.E.G,

To answer your question, I measured an unfired M855 round compared to one of the FTF reloads using the Hornady Headspace "Comparator" (nice to have 2 spell checkers: one to get it wrong and you to correct me). Here's the results:



So without the condescending *sighs*, how about educating me and those that would benefit from the information, what does that have to do with this?

 

[Swampman]

what does that have to do with this?

Until you mentioned that you were using a comparator and bumping .003", I thought you might have shoved the shoulder back too much and created an excessive headspace issue.

When that happens, the firing pin can use up a lot of it's energy pushing the case forward until the shoulder contacts the inside of the chamber (just like it does when it has to fully seat a primer in the pocket).

By the time that occurs, the reduced firing pin energy, combined with the increase in distance between the case head and bolt face, may not leave enough energy/protrusion to reliably fire the primer.

I'm pretty sure W.E.G. was thinking along the same lines I was.

With that ruled out, the hit on the left hand primer looks both off center and a little shallow to me.

What sort of bolt gun are you shooting?

Is there any possibility that the bolt handle wasn't fully down when you pulled the trigger?