CCW and the handicapped

[browncoatdawn]

Hey all, hows it going? Just turned 32 today, quietly. I never tought I would make it this far, especially like this lol.
Well, August of 2010 I had an accident, and now I am, possibly permantnly in a wheelchair.
I am learning to live life, and and 100% independant in the chair. Life isn't easy for anyone, so lesson learned.

My main question here is, since I am in a chair, it's a bit harder to find carry options. I am in Iowa, land of 52 seasons, as my dad put it. I am comfortable with my abilities, and love to practice, so carring an LCP wouldnt be bad. I have a polish P-64 which I have been considering carrying.
I do like the 4 inch 1911's, and so, that gives me a range of sizes and styles. I feel that I may be limited to the shoulder rigs.
Has anyone had any experience with this? Or possibly known anyone who has?
The neighbor carries in an iswb at the 2 o'clock position, but since he's also in a chair, and the dunlap phase of life has us both, he has to wrestle to get the gun out. I really don't think it's a wise choice, even if I do like that 642 SW.

I await your collective wisdom.

 

[axxxel]

Somehow I feel that in this thread weelchair experience is more valuable than CCW experience. I've got neither but I have a question:

Is it not possible for you to mount a holster on the weelchair? Like between your legs or behind your back? I don't know how your accident affected your upper body but I see a lot of chairborne people with backpacks on the back of their wheelchairs.

It seems to me as if that would be a good place to mount a holster, inside some kind of bag that doesn't look like a holster but that you could just stick your hand into when you have to, without working a ziplock.

 

[Lawdawg45]

"I am learning to live life, and and 100% independant in the chair. Life isn't easy for anyone, so lesson learned"

May God bless you! My heart goes out to you, I was recently diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis and the disease has already taken it's toll. My wrist and hand strength have suffered and as a result my semi-auto's have gone to other homes, but I'm still dead on with my trusty wheel guns! In answer to your question, I'd consider a shoulder rig or a cross draw mounted on the non dominant side of your chair, possibly mounted on the arm support. Stay strong my friend.

LD

 

[hammerklavier]

In most states ccw is defined as "on or about your person" so you should be legal to carry in bag attached to the arm rest. I'd recommend the p64 or 1911 as weight will not be an issue.

 

[Jackal1]

I've heard of people successfully using a pocket holster and placing the gun under their butt/thigh. To draw you lean away from the gun and draw with the hand closest to the gun. There was a guy in the news a year or so ago who successfully defended himself and he stored his gun that way.

My main problem with that carry method (or the bag attached to the chair method mentioned above) is that I want the firearm connected to me in some way. Some punk who's trying to rob you will know that in order to immobalize you he needs to dump you on the floor out of your wheelchair. If you get dumped you no longer have your firearm in the moment you need it the most.

I highly recommend having a pistol stored on you yourself. Perhaps you can store a full-size (easier to shoot) gun in a bag on your wheelchair, and store a little .380 (harder to shoot) gun in your pocket in case you get dumped?

I'm glad you're taking your safety seriously - good luck out there.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Iowa is a licensed open carry state. If you have your CCW permit, there is no legal requirement to keep your gun perfectly hidden. Just a thought to consider that might open more possibilities.

 

[Ducman69]

I would look to Vriess for inspiration, the wheelchair bound badass from Alien Resurrection!

 

[squarles67]

I'm an L1 parapelegic and also confined to a chair. I use a few different methods depending on what I'm doing at the time.

1. DB9 in a belly band. I keep it at about 2 o'clock, good concealment with this one.
2. a bulldog cellphone holster with a P3AT. I'm quicker on the draw with this one.
3. sometimes I just keep the DB9 in a pocket holster in the bag on the back of my chair.
4. last is an ankle holster, I keep it on the inside of my left leg for right hand draw

Not sure on your actual situation but keep pressure points in mind when chosing a location and rig, pressure sores are no fun.

This guy has a cool idea http://www.scotworksllc.com/index.html I just don't particularly care for having it mounted to the chair. Seems to me like I'm the most vulnerable getting in and out of the car so when I transfer to the car seat I want my weapon on me, not the chair.

 

[mclue]

I am also in a wheelchair. I had some holsters sewn into some Filson vests.
Wool and cotton for the 2 seasons. To balance things out I have a pocket for reloads on the other side. I carry a 3 inch J frame SS. It is a comfortable way to carry. I don't like having things in my pockets so I keep my keys, wallet and cell phone in the vest also. I study mixed martial arts and carry pepper spray so I have some options. We all need to try different styles to find what works for us.

 

[dfariswheel]

NEVER attach the gun to the chair.
The first thing the bad guy will try to do is dump you out.
Also, if you transfer to a drivers seat, the gun won't be accessible.
While you're transferring it's just too easy for someone to grab the chair away to get to you. There goes the gun.

One of the best handicapped carry options is a fanny pack.
Many handicapped people wear fanny packs so it doesn't say "GUN" as much as when other people wear one.

The advantage of the fanny pack is that it's a complete package.
You have your gun, reloads, wallet, keys, checkbook, cell phone, etc all in one convenient package.
This makes is less likely you'll leave the gun at home when just running down to the store.
It's too easy to leave the gun when you have to take time and effort to put on a holster.
With a fanny pack, it takes time and effort to leave the gun by removing it from the pack, so you'll always have it if you ever need it.
The fanny pack is easy to put on, it's snatch proof, and comfortable to wear sitting.

What fanny pack you choose is critical, since many won't work well when sitting.
The tunnel type in which you rip open an end and stick your hand inside the pack don't work well sitting.
The best type is one where the entire front of the pack opens away totally exposing the gun.

Any pack that doesn't have a rip cord type opening is not a good idea.
The types that have a Velcro closure that has to be peeled open or the Tommy Pack types that use a plastic buckle closure are difficult to "find" the part you have to pull or unlock when under stress.

One of the best of the fanny packs for sitting use is the Blackhawk Weapon Fanny Pack 5-5-10. This refers to the ability to draw and fire five shots, in five seconds, at ten yards.
The back of the gun pocket has the loop part of Velcro so you can stick a holster to it.
The front of the gun pocket has two elastic loops for magazines and more Velcro for a knife pouch or revolver speed loaders.
There's a front pocket for a wallet, etc, and two wing pockets.

The back is well paddedwith molded padding to add comfort, and it uses an ambidextrous rip cord on each side. You can add a plastic or wood toggle handle to either cord to increase the grip and make it easier to "find" when you need to open the pack fast.

The buckle is a higher grade plastic type that's well rounded for comfort, and it uses a three-way unlock feature for more security. If you find the three-way unlock difficult, you can use a hobby knife to trim off the small extra lock to convert it to a standard two point unlock.

For sitting use, attach the gun and holster in a more upright position rather then the usual horizontal position.
This makes for a faster draw, and prevents flipping the gun out of the pocket when ripping it open.
Set up this way also eliminates problems caused by "Dunlap disease" of your belly interfering.

http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Weapon-Fanny-Pack,879,88.htm

 

[SleazyRider]

Please don't get me wrong. I pose this question strictly out of curiosity and for no other reason: Is your concern to be armed supported by statistical evidence? Are wheelchair bound people oftentimes the victims of violent crime?

(At the risk of being redundant, I am questioning neither your right to be armed nor the concern you expressed in your original post. I am simply taken aback that such low-lives that would victimize a handicapped person are among us. Personally, yes, I would prefer to be armed.)

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Please don't get me wrong. I pose this question strictly out of curiosity and for no other reason: Is your concern to be armed supported by statistical evidence? Are wheelchair bound people oftentimes the victims of violent crime?

To what degree I can't say, but rest assured, there are people that will assault a person in a wheelchair. Predators, whether four-legged or two, target a victim they perceive to be weak.

OP, how much use of your upper body do you have? I ask because it might be beneficial to get some strength/weight training, as well as floor grappling techniques. This threat ...

The first thing the bad guy will try to do is dump you out.

... IMO is very real.

 

[BCCL]

"Persons age 12 or older who had disabilities experienced an estimated 567,000 nonfatal violent crimes in 2010"

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/capd10st.pdf

While that number reflects a decrease from the year before, it still shows that a disabled person is making a sound choice to be able to defend themselves.

dfariswheels comments above are spot on.

 

[Dnaltrop]

+1 on the Fanny Pack, they do work.

Belly bands maybe ( no personal experience)

Pocket carry in your jacket in inclement weather, or have slits sewn into the pocket, allowing you to access your waistband holster/belly band with your jacket over it still.

Also gives you the option of shooting through the coat. Hopefully doesn't ever come to that.

I don't believe i saw mention of whether it was a Power chair or if you have one of those low-side athletic jobs... don't know how much you have to worm your arm around to get to the gun in the first place, or your strength level in the upper torso.

Good luck neighbor.

 

[browncoatdawn]

Some excellent advice!

Thanks to all. I am a T12-L2 partial. I am still, VERY slowly getting return in my left hip, slowly working its way into my quads. My right side has good hip control, and still making gains in my right quad, and now my inner thigh, and outter thigh and glute to a lesser, or slower extent.

I am always mindful of my surroundings, and my pressure relief regimine. I was at Quality Living for my rehab in Omaha Nebraska. A wonderful place, mostly for the people there.

I have very good upper body strength, infact my grip in my right hand came out to be 171psi just a couple of months ago. As far as grappling goes, it might be more of an option if I am blessed with more return in my hips.

I live in Des Moines NE side, and in my 7 weeks here have met some real bone heads. 2 people have tried to lure me into altercations of some sort. I generally respond with some abstract point that leaves them wondering if I am all there.

My chair, is pretty standard, manual, and fairly light. I don't so much like the idea of mounting any firearm on the chair, as it may easily be dumped and without full sensation, one may not know it's even gone. Since I can't feel it bounce off my foot or leg like i would have before. A shoulder rig, vest, and fanny pack, all of various design sound like my best option. I have seen "tactical" undershirts at Scheels with built in pockets under the arms for carry purposes.
Right now, I carry a simple knife, not that I ever hope to use it. I really never went without carrying since I was 21, and I had little "reason" in most peoples opinion, to carry then. I am very laid back, and almost invisible in most cases. I would avoid conflict when it wasnt needed, and it was only needed once that I can recall. I kept calm and the other guy ended up falling in line and behaving.

I am interested in this for more than just my own reasons, as I would hope to be able to help others in the future.
This leads to another bit I will be asking for advice on sometime soon.
I wish to open my own small gun shop in Des Moines.

 

[jrmiddleton425]

First off let me state my wheelchair experience. i have cerebral palsy and have been using a wheelchair for 23 years. I carry occasionally. My recommendation would be that you not mount your gun on your wheelchair...if you fall, or someone dumps you out of it, you'll end up separated from your gun.

For most if not all of the handguns you have, Galco makes excellent shoulder holsters in the Jackass/Miami Classic line. My 1911 rides in a Classic Lite, concealed under a BDU blouse or medium weight jacket. It's pretty comfortable when you're in a wheelchair, if you balance it right. One thing to be aware of is that if you have decreased sensation, watch the plastic backplate...it can chafe. Galco also makes a belly band.

Another good shoulder holster is Alessi's Bodyguard. Tom Kulwicki does custom work and fitting if you need it.

Depending on your wardrobe and gun, pocket holsters may work for you. Have them sewn into cargo pockets, etc.

 

[Jath]

I couldn't wait to read the other posts before I replied, so if what I'm about to write has already been written, I apologize.

You are in a wheelchair, which is your permanent vehicle. You don't have to leave the vehicle exactly as you first got it, you can alter it. That being said, If you were to figure out the best place for your to have a concealed weapon on your wheelchair, and then cut/sewed into the fabrics or leather to add a built in hidden holster, you could carry a very large gun with little or no hindrance to you whatsoever. The chair would take ALL of the weight of the gun. You could install a lock on it too so that if you had to be separate from your chair, you could secure the gun. If you buy a fanny pack designed for concealed carry and removed the straps, and then sewed it to the back of your chair where you could reach it and it would be out of the way, and only you could draw it from a certain angle, I think you'd have something. Then just drape something over the back of the chair to cover it and viola.

Just an idea.

I'm sorry that you're in a wheelchair, and I wish you the best.

 

[Jath]

ok, maybe I should have read the other posts first. There are a lot of better ideas than I had.

 

[Rodentman]

I am a BK amputee since 1991. Whilst I can walk with a prosthetic, I have a noticeable limp, HC license plates, and consider myself (right or wrong) more of a target than others with 2 legs who can run (I can't).

Recently, a man was carjacked and beaten at a local mall, at 2 PM on a weekday. He was HC and getting into his car in a HC parking spot. Being HC I tend to be very aware of my surroundings when in a public area and am almost always armed.

Yes I think HC folks are more of a target, considered by some an easy mark.

 

[3KillerBs]

Note on fanny packs if you are considering that option.

Check the quality of the zippers. I carried in a fanny pack at work for nearly 2 years and had two packs fail at the zippers. That point where the zipper pulls meet seems to be subject to considerable stress in daily use.

 

[yeahbuddy]

You might consider the Wilderness Tactical Safepacker with a shoulder strap attached to the D rings.
http://www.thewilderness.com/storepinnacle/index.php?p=catalog&parent=171&pg=1

 

[Shadow 7D]

Disabled persons are 2 to 5 times (to MUCH MUCH higher) to be victims of crime, the point is, if you are disabled, you WILL be taken advantage of, whether it's a PCA stealing from you, or a quad or mentally retarded girl being sexually abused as they are unable to to defend themselves. FBI tracks it, but you have to dig for the full statistics.

You will be dumped, esp. in a manual,
I would focus on working this through with a CCW instructor at the range, I'd suggest on the body carry, or even one on the body with a backup, as you are UNALBE TO RETREAT so, you have to end it RIGHT THERE.

Also, ALWAYS have a phone. Sorry but this is a really nasty topic, as you end up in the old man category, ' Never fight an old man, he's too old to fight and will just kill you instead '

edit:
Sadly, most people who are disabled are taught not to fight back, as there is less 'damage' in the long run.
Call around, maybe even go to the police station and ask for instructor reference
finding someone who is willing and ABLE to teach you may be a bit of a issue, as your instruction should be more advanced than the usual CCW class, you should learn to shoot from the ground after knocked over and how to draw from concealment. And find the system that lets you do both.

 

[Byrd666]

Being Hemipalegic myself this is a very interesting to me. Having spent a few months in a hospital furnished chair and only having one paw and one leg to work with the only I came up with at the time that was practical for MY situation would have been a fanny on my weak side to hold my 2 1/2" S & W. Thanks to some VERY tenacious and unforgiving terrorists - - I am no longer in a chair but I am still paralyzed on one side.

Now with that being said. may I ask and or recommend, of sorts, at the same time.
Is the chair you have a "full sized" chair with arms and all? - If it is, I might suggest a vertical shoulder rig. The arms would block any line of sight of a "print" and still give you the element of surprise. Or a fanny pack that you could leave partially opened for ease of access and surprise and would be blocked by the arms. If you have the "open" type chair, sorry I can't remember the exact names, I might still suggest a fanny pack of the larger variety. So it sorta looks like a utility bag but, not an attache' or portfolio type bag. Nothing that attracts a lot of attention.

I assume you you have the use of the full upper body by what I read, correct?
If that is the case, why not a crossdraw draw type waist rig? You could use it on the strong or weak side, it's easy to conceal, and I think it would be practical for a person such as you. Or me for that fact. As that is what I myself will be using when I get my C.H.L.

I'm also thinking an ankle type rig might work for ya. Unless you are a really hot girl, most people never really look and see what people have below the knees. Granted, this idea probably won't go over well at the local pool if you're just wearing swim trunks. Than again, neither will most of the others.

One other idea just came to me, why not wear cargo pants and or shorts? Built in storage for pocket gun and extras as well as plenty of extra fabric for covering the print.

Let us know what idea(s) ya' come up with. And keep your head high and keep at it bud, you'll get there in the long run.

"The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"

 

[dfariswheel]

Sorry to say, but knives and hand-to-hand combat are non-starters for the handicapped.

In order to use either you have to close with the assailant, and they just aren't going to go for that. It's much too easy to dodge back and maneuver around behind you.
You can't hold a knife and move the chair at the same time to keep the attacker in front of you.
Eventually, they get behind you or just dump you.

The only person I ever saw who was really effective at hand-to-hand from a wheelchair was a former Marine.
He was a power lifter and developed his own technique for defense.
If attacked, he actually helped the attacker to dump him. When he went down, he took the attacker down with him, and the attacker just never got up again.... EVER.

The most viable defense is a handgun, which is called an Equalizer for a good reason.
The rules are:
It has to be an effective caliber with which you can stop things with a single shot.

NEVER plan on getting more than one shot.
Bad things happen. The gun jams, a round misfires, the bad guy gets off a shot that hits you, whatever. That's why you need an effective caliber of at least .380 or above, and in a day where you can buy 9mm or .40 caliber micro-guns there's no reason to carry a small caliber, low power gun.

It needs to have a large enough capacity and spare ammo because you have no choice but to "stand" and fight. You won't be running away or taking cover.

It has to be fast into action. That means an effective holster or other carry method.
If you have to dig for it, you'll never make it.

The cross draw or fanny pack is good, because if you simply put your hands in your lap, your hand is literally right on the gun. All you have to do is rip open the pack or raise the coat or shirt and the gun is right there.
With a little practice this can be extremely fast.

The strong side holster is OUT.
If you're sitting in a chair, you can't access the gun fast because you have to lean over to allow getting your hand between you and the chair to grip the gun.
This is slow and too easy to fumble the draw.

Keep your head up and your eyes and mind on what's going on around you.
Jeff Cooper gave color codes to the levels of alertness. Most people are in perpetual Code White and wouldn't notice a mob of zombies approaching.
Most bad guys are like sharks, they circle around and look you over to make sure you're no threat.

If someone offers to help you in or out of your vehicle, say "NO THANKS" loudly enough that there's no doubt they hear you.
If they move toward you anyway, get prepared to defend yourself, but don't telegraph that you're clearing a gun.

If someone approaches on the street or in a parking lot, look them straight in the eye and get your hands casually near the gun.

NEVER threaten or show the gun. The bad guys should realize you're armed when they see the muzzle flash.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Like all the above have point out,
PROFESSIONAL help and training will get MUCH further, asuming you can find an open minded trainer - not the easiest, but just remember, because somebody looks retarded, doesn't mean they ARE. As you see, most people look at those in wheelchairs and other 'obvious' disability as just their disability. This thankfully means that predators, like cats, will play a bit, instead of the straight stickup, they do the verbal-fu etc.

So, work on it, practice the drop of the wallet, the dummy toss etc. ALSO practice ground fighting assuming they just come up and tip you to rip you off, also assume that they will be making physical contact and plan for it.