we are not amused
Member
My first response was "I not sure thinking is what is going on here", but perhaps you're right.
CCW gun too accurate?
- Thread starter M-Cameron
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My first response was "I not sure thinking is what is going on here", but perhaps you're right.
I am going to say that i do agree with what most everyone else has said....and i have no plans of switching my CCW guns to anything less accurate, nor do i recommend anyone else does either...
I was taught that when it comes to shooting, you should question everything, no matter how common place or well accepted it may be....otherwise you end up in a place where you blindly follow advice(good or bad) with no real understanding as to why......this was just one of those topics that came up, and i felt like asking.
now to address some of the things that have come up....
this target i shot was one of the rare occurrences that i decided to practice aimed fire. most of my defensive 'practice' is more or less point-shooting at distances ranging from 10-30'.
I was taught that when it comes to shooting, you should question everything, no matter how common place or well accepted it may be....otherwise you end up in a place where you blindly follow advice(good or bad) with no real understanding as to why......this was just one of those topics that came up, and i felt like asking.
now to address some of the things that have come up....
this target i shot was one of the rare occurrences that i decided to practice aimed fire. most of my defensive 'practice' is more or less point-shooting at distances ranging from 10-30'.
Claude Clay
Member
all fire is aimed....even if only that i am looking at where i want the bullet to go
and to draw, double tap 3 targets in under 2 seconds and have all shots COM
is my goal when practicing SD shooting. age and arthritis has my time to 1st shot
taking a little longer but has not affected accuracy.
though till you have been tested, one can not 100% know how they will respond in a real
situation with regards to IDPA...even a rated MM is no guarentee of actions off the playing field.
and to draw, double tap 3 targets in under 2 seconds and have all shots COM
is my goal when practicing SD shooting. age and arthritis has my time to 1st shot
taking a little longer but has not affected accuracy.
though till you have been tested, one can not 100% know how they will respond in a real
situation with regards to IDPA...even a rated MM is no guarentee of actions off the playing field.
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thump_rrr
Member
Do the F.A.S.T test and come back and tell us your results.
http://pistol-training.com/archives/1205
http://pistol-training.com/archives/1205
fastbolt
Member
I suspect you're over-thinking things a bit. Not uncommon. We've all indulged in it at one time or another.
You were probably using a specific aiming point when you were target shooting, right? Meaning you were "following the hole" after the first shot in each target area? Hang up an old T-shirt on your target and see how things may change when the "hole" isn't nicely punched and clearly visible through paper.
Also, you were probably standing comfortably, shooting at whatever rate-of-fire is comfortable for you, right? 1 or 2 handed? Even, or least consistent, weight distribution?
Shooting situations tend to happen unexpectedly, and are usually referred to as dynamic, chaotic, rapidly evolving events that more often than not involve reduced light conditions. Elevated heart rate from the hormonal fear response (meaning not just from some simple physical exertion) can start to adversely affect things, too.
I remember one study by a major state agency which found that over the course of many years, reportedly upwards of almost 65% of both the officers and their attackers had been in motion throughout the shooting incidents.
You were probably using a specific aiming point when you were target shooting, right? Meaning you were "following the hole" after the first shot in each target area? Hang up an old T-shirt on your target and see how things may change when the "hole" isn't nicely punched and clearly visible through paper.
Also, you were probably standing comfortably, shooting at whatever rate-of-fire is comfortable for you, right? 1 or 2 handed? Even, or least consistent, weight distribution?
Shooting situations tend to happen unexpectedly, and are usually referred to as dynamic, chaotic, rapidly evolving events that more often than not involve reduced light conditions. Elevated heart rate from the hormonal fear response (meaning not just from some simple physical exertion) can start to adversely affect things, too.
I remember one study by a major state agency which found that over the course of many years, reportedly upwards of almost 65% of both the officers and their attackers had been in motion throughout the shooting incidents.
cambeul41
Member
At least one Hong Kong movie informs us that a double tap involves placing two shots in the same hole, so it must be possible since Chinese films are so realistic.
Double Tap (The Film)
Rick熱衷於射擊和鎗械，視重案組的苗為對手。在一次比賽中，Rick一嘗殺人的快感。三年後，他成為一手段利落的冷血殺手，與苗再續三年前未分勝負的生死戰。
Outside the courthouse, the key witness of a famous trial and six cops are assassinated. Each is hit twice at the same spot in the head. Miu knows Rick is back. Several years ago in a shooting contest, Rick and Miu knew they were borne to be the sworn enemies. Two top gunners now face their final battle. This is the gunfight of all gunfights.
Double Tap (The Film)
Rick熱衷於射擊和鎗械，視重案組的苗為對手。在一次比賽中，Rick一嘗殺人的快感。三年後，他成為一手段利落的冷血殺手，與苗再續三年前未分勝負的生死戰。
Outside the courthouse, the key witness of a famous trial and six cops are assassinated. Each is hit twice at the same spot in the head. Miu knows Rick is back. Several years ago in a shooting contest, Rick and Miu knew they were borne to be the sworn enemies. Two top gunners now face their final battle. This is the gunfight of all gunfights.
RickMD
Member
If you're that good of a shot you won't need any follow up shots. One centered in the sternum or between the eyes generally settles the issue quite promptly.
Madcap_Magician
Member
Don't think too much.
For those that were curious.....and mainly because i was curious myself, i went to the range and did 2 straight "mag-dumps" as fast as possible W/out using sights at ~20'.
....i must say im pretty happy with the results.
i do like the suggestion earlier about hanging a T-shirt over the target so that i dont get feedback from seeing the holes, i think ill have to try that next time i go out.
....i must say im pretty happy with the results.
i do like the suggestion earlier about hanging a T-shirt over the target so that i dont get feedback from seeing the holes, i think ill have to try that next time i go out.
Attachments
IF you were able to shoot that well in a real defense situation. just AIM an inch off the first hole for each following shot. or better yet, shoot out one eye, then the other. personally, i would aim for center of mass, and hope that i could hit somewhere in the vicinity. in a real "you or them" situation, i do not know about you, but i am certain i would not be calm, cool, and collected. i have thought late in the night when i have trouble sleeping sometimes about a hostage situation. if i would take a chance on shooting a b.g. behind another living human being. that is a tough one, and it usually makes me not able to go back to sleep at all. if that is not a worse case scenario, it has to be a very close second.
Snowdog
Member
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- Dec 24, 2002
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Not to ignore the fundamental question of the thread, but I'd like to add that the P64 is indeed an exceptionally accurate little pistol. Its accuracy took me by surprise as well. Probably a combination of the incredibly short/light SA trigger, fixed barrel and the expectation of ho-hum accuracy from such a small pistol.
Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
You'll be lucky if you even hit the bad guy at all with more than half of your rounds. Just like the rest of us. Combat throws accuracy out the window.
needmorecowbell
Member
Aim in different spots.
Certaindeaf
member
There is no such thing as too accurate. DVC though.
Humakavula
Member
your breathing alone will change the placement of your shots. his movement is not like that of a piece of paper either.
Certaindeaf
member
I don't think you said but what distance was that first target shot at and with what cadence?
If all your "training" involves standing still on a square range, I'm sorry, but you're probably NOT prepared for a real self defense situation.
I highly recommend taking a training class where you can move and shoot. It will be a real eye opener. Or at the very least shoot some IDPA. As far as the gun being too accurate, no. That's merely removing one randomizing factor from the equation.
I highly recommend taking a training class where you can move and shoot. It will be a real eye opener. Or at the very least shoot some IDPA. As far as the gun being too accurate, no. That's merely removing one randomizing factor from the equation.
sgtstryker
Member
Wow. I have read this thread through about three times. I have never thought of this possibility before. I believe the OP is sincere in his question, and there have been some serious answers/observations. IF I ever have to defend myself and put two rounds into the same hole, I'm gonna see if I can make it a three fer.
Nice groups
If you can do anything close to that while you are moving and a target is moving
You are doing very very well.
After seeing some research, i would be somewhat worried about the actual bullet performance and expansion. Some of the tests showed that the limited quality JHP
Available just didnt do so well on ballistic media. In some cases the JHP didnt expand at
All when shot through 4 layers of blue jean matierial.
I absolutely loved shooting a Cz82..... What a great gun. I have also heard the p64 is incredibly accurate in SA.
Shot placement is king, but dont overlook the bullet performance for your gun.
For me the options at 9mm and 45 are immense, and the bullet manufacturers have developed some great options.
Lastly, i am suprised how much ammo in 9 mak has gone up in price. In many places its at or only slightly better than 9mm.
It used to be half or 3/4 of the 9...... Not so much anymore
If you can do anything close to that while you are moving and a target is moving
You are doing very very well.
After seeing some research, i would be somewhat worried about the actual bullet performance and expansion. Some of the tests showed that the limited quality JHP
Available just didnt do so well on ballistic media. In some cases the JHP didnt expand at
All when shot through 4 layers of blue jean matierial.
I absolutely loved shooting a Cz82..... What a great gun. I have also heard the p64 is incredibly accurate in SA.
Shot placement is king, but dont overlook the bullet performance for your gun.
For me the options at 9mm and 45 are immense, and the bullet manufacturers have developed some great options.
Lastly, i am suprised how much ammo in 9 mak has gone up in price. In many places its at or only slightly better than 9mm.
It used to be half or 3/4 of the 9...... Not so much anymore
Nice groups
If you can do anything close to that while you are moving and a target is moving
You are doing very very well.
After seeing some research, i would be somewhat worried about the actual bullet performance and expansion. Some of the tests showed that the limited quality JHP
Available just didnt do so well on ballistic media. In some cases the JHP didnt expand at
All when shot through 4 layers of blue jean matierial.
I absolutely loved shooting a Cz82..... What a great gun. I have also heard the p64 is incredibly accurate in SA.
Shot placement is king, but dont overlook the bullet performance for your gun.
For me the options at 9mm and 45 are immense, and the bullet manufacturers have developed some great options.
Lastly, i am suprised how much ammo in 9 mak has gone up in price. In many places its at or only slightly better than 9mm.
It used to be half or 3/4 of the 9...... Not so much anymore
If you can do anything close to that while you are moving and a target is moving
You are doing very very well.
After seeing some research, i would be somewhat worried about the actual bullet performance and expansion. Some of the tests showed that the limited quality JHP
Available just didnt do so well on ballistic media. In some cases the JHP didnt expand at
All when shot through 4 layers of blue jean matierial.
I absolutely loved shooting a Cz82..... What a great gun. I have also heard the p64 is incredibly accurate in SA.
Shot placement is king, but dont overlook the bullet performance for your gun.
For me the options at 9mm and 45 are immense, and the bullet manufacturers have developed some great options.
Lastly, i am suprised how much ammo in 9 mak has gone up in price. In many places its at or only slightly better than 9mm.
It used to be half or 3/4 of the 9...... Not so much anymore
Matthew Courtney
Member
In addition to what Kleanbore and Sam have written, I will add that the original post reflects a dangerous mindset in that there is an underlying assumption that both the OP and the target are standing still. People shouldn't stand still in deadly force situations unless they are in formidable barricade situations and predatory criminals rarely assail those in formidable barricade situations.
An appropriate mindset is more important than either top notch equipment or a high level shooting skill set because if we fail to correct the cranial/rectal inversion, we will never have an opportunity to bring the other things to bear. Quality training is about so much more than shooting. I suggest you find some.
An appropriate mindset is more important than either top notch equipment or a high level shooting skill set because if we fail to correct the cranial/rectal inversion, we will never have an opportunity to bring the other things to bear. Quality training is about so much more than shooting. I suggest you find some.
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