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CCW - regarding gun printing

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Vector, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. Vector

    Vector Well-Known Member

    I believe I know the law fairly well in my state regarding where I can legally carry and those areas where it is prohibited. Additionally I believe my understanding of when I can use my firearm is also sound. However it dawned on me that while I carry concealed, I am not positive how the law defines concealed. Granted I know the basic concept, but if the gun is out of plain sight, but I bend over to pick something up, it might become partially visible for a brief second.
    Furthermore, if it is intermittently printing an outline depending on my movements, type of clothes I'm wearing, a very windy day, etc., would that be subject to violation of the law :confused:

    The question might be subjective depending on who sees it and presumably any LEO that would be called to make a determination. Still I am wondering if any state CC laws address the aforementioned with any specificity?
  2. Depends on the state, without that information it's pretty much impossible to tell.
  3. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Well-Known Member

    What state are you in?
  4. Vector

    Vector Well-Known Member

    Florida, but I also want to hear about other states and how they specify (if at all) regarding intermittent printing or a situation where it becomes visible for a brief period as I described in the opening post.
  5. smalls

    smalls Well-Known Member

    If I'm not mistaken, Florida just passed a law not too long ago that made it OK to print, or become momentarily unconcealed. But no one knows exactly how long it's OK to be unconcealed. The bill actually started as an open carry bill, but got watered down tremendously.
    I live in MI, an open carry state, so I don't much worry about staying concealed. I'll wear a T shirt, and probably print like crazy when I bend down, but I don't really care too much.
  6. Loosedhorse

    Loosedhorse member

    In MA, I'd expect three things:
    1) If I give someone reason to believe I'm armed, they will call 911.
    2) If I am the subject of a 911 MWAG call, I expect my CLEO will pull my license.*
    3) If I look for that in the statutes, I will find nothing, except:
    So: concealed means concealed.

    *Doesn't mean I wouldn't contest his decision.
  7. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Well-Known Member

    Yes, Vector, Florida did indeed recently decriminalize the "brief open" display of a normally-concealed firearm or weapon when carried by a concealed-carry licensee. Such "brief" display must not be "in a rude or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense."
    No one has defined "brief" yet, and there have been no cases yet to try it that I know of. As "smalls" stated, the intent was to pass a bill that would have permitted CC-licensees to actually carry openly, but ended up being just this by the time it got through the more liberal side of the State Legislature.

    From the section of the statute which prohibits open carry:
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2012
  8. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Washington, no concern at all. Open carry is legal. Concealed carry is legal with a CPL. So, if you have a CPL, anything between 100% open to 100% concealed is legal. It is only illegal to intentionally display your firearm in a manner, at a time and place, and under circumstances that warrant (NOT causes) a fear of safety by a reasonable person or intended to intimidate another person.
  9. tyeo098

    tyeo098 Well-Known Member

    OC (permitless) is legal in Virginia too.

    In or out, however you like it.

    But like all other states, showing the gun in a threatening manner (brandishing) is a no-no.
  10. Vector

    Vector Well-Known Member

    Interesting, as that may even cover allowing someone to look at it just like you would show a friend an up close look at your watch. Needless to say that is not something I intend on doing, but it will help to alleviate worries about taking it off or putting it back on after coming out of a place it is prohibited. I also doubt any printing can be construed as a violation of the law considering the new standard quoted.
  11. exavid

    exavid Well-Known Member

    Oregon is an open carry state but there are some restrictions on open carry. If you have a CCW and choose to carry it openly then most of those restrictions don't apply. Because of that printing or accidental weapon exposure isn't a problem provided it isn't being used as a threat. This state is in a state of flux vis a vis gun laws. The state house passes more liberalized gun laws by a wide margin, which is good since the house is 50/50 but one man in the state senate has been blocking these bills. Hopefully the next election may help with this situation. The state is reasonably gun friendly but has no reciprocation or recognition with any otherl.
  12. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Well-Known Member

    It all boils down to common sense. If you decide to carry your full size 1911 in a Blackhawk Serpa OWB holster and a tight T Shirt, then no matter what the law, you will bring unwanted scrutiny and attention. In a tactical sense, you don't want anyone, good or bad to know that you have a lethal means of defense. Just because some skinny guy boasts that he can conceal a full size 1911 doesn't mean that you can do the same trick with goodyear tire love handles.

    Remove you weapon from your holster in a public place without a justifiable reason and you will most certainly be arrested. As for printing, it can happen but you should take reasonable measures to not. I've even had to squat to pick up items instead of bending over. Just remember..."printing" is a bad thing. One type can get you unwanted attention, the other type is just plain nasty!:eek:
  13. Vector

    Vector Well-Known Member

    I suspect concerns about printing are greater down here and other very warm climates. When you wear shorts and a tee shirt it is harder to conceal than areas where more clothing is the norm. As for myself, I like to tuck in my shirt, so I use a Crossbreed supertuck, but it can still print on occasion. As a law abiding citizen I just want to make sure that I am not running afoul of the law when that happens.
  14. brboyer

    brboyer Well-Known Member

    Back in 2009/2010 in Regalado v. State, Florida's Fourth District court of appeals ruled that a LEO may not 'Terry' stop an individual based solely on the possession or suspected possession of a concealed (or mostly concealed) firearm.

    Their ruling was that it is not illegal to conceal a firearm if one has a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License. Interesting legal analysis...I liken it to driving without a license: The courts would never allow LEO's (outside of the checkpoints) to stop a car, based on a citizen telling them the driver did not have a DL, just to make sure the driver has a DL.

    Just in the last week or so Florida's Third District Court of Appeals reached a completely different conclusion.

    Now we have a certified direct conflict that will go to the Florida Supreme Court for a final state-wide ruling.

    Both DCA's had interesting analyses, so it will be interesting to see which way the Supremes go.

    So 'printing' may or may not be legal right now depending on where you live in the state.
    ETA: That's not what I meant....What I meant to say is that, printing, is definitely not illegal, but it may be legal for a LEO to stop to and question you (cuff & stuff till he figures out if you are legally 'concealing') depending on where you live.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  15. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Oh gawd, not that argument again!
  16. brboyer

    brboyer Well-Known Member

    Under which statute, specifically?
  17. old fart

    old fart Well-Known Member

    i live in kentucky and if your firearm prints here its ok. i don't know the statute number but on open carry.org on the kentucky side they state all gun laws and the number. i open carry now as i won't afford my permit anytime soon. thanks
  18. Beaux Nehr

    Beaux Nehr Well-Known Member

    Some people believe printing to be a gray area, or downright illegal in Texas. I do not.

    However, in my experience, you could be a huge guy, wearing a tight spandex shirt on a windy, rainy day with LEDs outlining your gun on your hip, and the general public simply wouldn't notice.
    Most people are totally oblivious to their surroundings.
  19. Redlg155

    Redlg155 Well-Known Member

    What statute? I'm sure they could find a reason such as "brandishing a firearm" or some related charge. I keep my statute book at work, so I can't reference a charge here without aggravation. Sure, the charge doesn't stick, but you have to deal with convincing the judge or DA that you are in the right.
  20. brboyer

    brboyer Well-Known Member

    Here's a link to Florida Statutes --> http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/

    "brandishing a firearm"": no such phrase in Florida statutes.

    We do not have DA's in Florida.


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