Center Access Relock Method of Gunfighting

Status
Not open for further replies.
As to how hard is it to learn, Check out the links above. There also is some video on the Sabre site and more pics I believe.

Using good gun handling practices and common sense, you can hold and shoot the gun on a "stationary" range in the basic positions. If you are concerned about where the bullets are going, start at 5 feet and use a big target.

Moving and shooting is another matter, as it is regardless of the method being used.

If you look closely at the video linked to above, as the shooter is shooting, a dent or indention appears in his T-shirt. Looks to me like it is caused by the slide as it travels back and forth.

To see what will happen slide and recoil wise, lock the slide open and then try the various positions.

Again, use safe gun handling practices and common sense.

When in doubt, don't: shoot, use it, try it, etc.....
 
Nope.

:neener:

WT also had a thread on this that includes info now locked out on the "wheelchair" thread. That thread, like most all threads, is going away on it's own.

Some folks have THEIR idea of how the world should be, and just what you/me should do when they think we should do it.

Those who complain, or cry out in anguish, or run around shouting that the sky is falling, or wring their hands about this or that, may just have an agenda of their own, such as: squelching discussion, supressing our/your freedoms and rights (including gun rights), maintaining the status quo, or whatever.

It's one way of taking over and dictating to you/me.

And IMO, it works lots of the time.

Have a nice day, and a nice summer season as well. :)
 
Well Joe, I thought that you showed no class at all in the "wheelchair" thread.
Truly gave me a case of the ass.
Having said that, I'll take your well-wishes to heart and send back the same.
Biker:)
 
Though it may be hard to believe to some, CAR is relatively easy to perform when shown by a CAR instructor. I was shown pistol CAR two summers ago and was able to make fast accurate shots on single and multiple targets in minutes.

I adopted two techniques of CAR for ME right then, as I saw advantage to them over anything I have seen before.

Handgun retention during a struggle in some situations and shooting seated in a vehicle. Both are very effective techniques, and I'll use them if and when they are called for. I'll use them because I was shown how to use them and they work.

The other techniques work well, but are not in line with my own methodology and years of training and I don't feel I want to retrain myself at this time in life. What I do works for me now, and I'll stay with what works and has worked in the past [ I'm more comfortable ].

The techniques I won't use were still easy to pick up and perform in minutes. The instructor who showed me CAR can shoot hard and fast and does not miss what he's intending to shoot with the system.

Hi Mercop:D

Robin Brown
 
CAR

I liked what I saw on the web, so I tried it at the range, some observations:

1) Castle is an extremely burly guy, he can shoot a 12 gauge with one hand no problem; I'm not, makes his style much more difficult.
2) I don't like my .45 going off within inches of my face. With 'muffs it's damn loud, without 'muffs would probably blow my eardrums.
3) If used off- (left-)handed I don't see how you could avoid the shells being ejected directly into your face.

I have no doubt it's good for weapon retention and if a BG is 2 feet from me I might use it.
 
*** was he doing in Reaction Video?

That stuff looks very cool, to be sure. He moves really fast, but I agree it's disconcerting lack of regard for where the slide is going!

Anyway, what the hell was he doing in the Reaction video? He is shooting, so I assume those are loaded pistols. Then he takes one out of his pocket, and points it at himself to illustrate where he got it from??? Ok, I don't have sound right now so maybe that makes it seem worse, but who the hell points a loaded gun at themsevles, ever?

The stuff still looks cool though.

BTW mercop. typo I think:
"Spontainous Pistol"


P.P.S.

I just watched Speed 2 clip, and is it trick of camera angles, or is that an unsafe 2 person demonstartion when both people are super slow and careful? When trying to go as fast as possible, does anyone else think it's kind of negligent?
...no-one graduates from the school who doesn't like the style - though there are a large number of casualties on the final day's Speed drills... Where the instructor stands behind you and fires across you as you step backward...

Not to criticize, but I watch it some more and it just seems stupider and stupider! The camo guy doesn't even look behind him as he steps back - directly into the line of fire his buddy was just shooting!

Please tell me this is not what it looks like:eek:
 
Just a few observations -

Many things that people normally consider "unsafe" are in fact utilized in high-speed training.
Many people would stand aghast at a team of men conducting a live-fire room entry and clearing. Many people would balk at allowing people with loaded weapons behind the firing line. Many people would choose not to run a drill where your partner has to fire right past you.
This is one of the reasons that the C.A.R. training is not offered wholesale to civilians. Operators are professionals, and are trained as such. That may make some people angry - so be it. By many people's own admission they are NOT trained professional operators and that the tactics discussed on boards like THR should keep that in mind. I see no reason why this is different. I am not going to teach a civilian room entry and clearing tactics, explosive entry, or raid planning - is this unreasonable?

This does not mean that certain elements of the C.A.R. system are not available to the general public. Quite the contrary, the basic elements of the shooting stances and methodologies are not restricted. What IS restricted, is the plethora of other course material that is offered within the context of C.A.R. when applied to LE/Military. There are indeed tactics and planning courses that most LE/Military organizations would prefer to keep in-house.
The everyday civilian is not prohibited from benefitting from the C.A.R. system, it is just both uneccessary and inappropriate to teach SWAT tactics to civilians.

In the "Reaction" video, he isn't pointing the gun back at himself - he's reholstering.
On the "Speed 2" clip - the two shooters are engaging separate targets, moving independantly.

Castle is an extremely burly guy, he can shoot a 12 gauge with one hand no problem; I'm not, makes his style much more difficult.

I'm 5'11" and weigh in at 200 lbs - pretty average. I fired several 1oz slugs from that very same one-handed grip. It's not as difficult as it seems. I put more than 100 of those 1oz slugs through a Remington 870 with no noticable discomfort or soreness in the days following.

I don't like my .45 going off within inches of my face. With 'muffs it's damn loud, without 'muffs would probably blow my eardrums.

Do you really believe that your .45 is any quieter if you hold it 10-12 inches further out? I use a Springfield MicroCompact .45 as my secondary - it works just fine. And my eardrums aren't blown out. As for having to shoot without hearing protection - that's something you're going to have to deal with in a real-world situation anyways, because you're not going to have time to put in the ear plugs.

If used off- (left-)handed I don't see how you could avoid the shells being ejected directly into your face.

I'm an ambi pistol shooter, and I don't have this problem; in fact, I haven't been hit in the face with even ONE of my spent cartridges. Even if I weren't an ambi shooter, the system forces you to use the so-called "weak-side" and stresses familiarity with shooting from the off-hand. Above and beyond that, if someone cannot deal with a few ejected casings flying past their face or bouncing around a car or falling into a t-shirt on the range - how would one react when it counts? They are distractors, nothing more.

As for the people who discount training because of the "Title" or the word "Gunfighting" - what gives? Seriously?
Would a kinder, gentler word suffice? Would that change the course material or the fundamentals of the system?
I find that people who fail to do more than scratch the surface of a title often make the same decisions with their training.

Paul Castle has a saying: "My ego is not worth the life of a single operator"
How many of us can honestly say the same?
 
Castle is an extremely burly guy, he can shoot a 12 gauge with one hand no problem; I'm not, makes his style much more difficult.

I'm 5'11" and weigh in at 200 lbs - pretty average.

Mmm 200, average? You're 3 inches taller and 65 pounds heavier than I. Needless to say I can barely HOLD a shotgun one-handed let alone shoot the thing. Castle's forearms are about as big as my thighs ;) If it works for you, more power to you. Like I said it looks good, just didn't work out for me unless I were willing to put a LOT, LOT of training into it. I agree it would probably be the best technique for encounters within 2 yards.
 
Mostly my point was that many people are making judgment calls based on nothing more than some videos and articles. Unless one has had an opportunity to work with an instructor, they don't very well have enough information to dismiss a system, now do they? :)

I'm not going to sit here and preach C.A.R. to you, or try to get you to see the other side of the coin. I'm simply asking that if you're going to make assumptions, at least make informed assumptions. I would put C.A.R. against any of the old "tried and true" methods any day of the week, and at distances beyond 2 yards.

The problem with C.A.R. is that it's relatively new - and we're afraid of new things, especially when they challenge old ways of thinking.
 
crock of baloney. whoever wrote the article originally quoted needs to throw the thesarus downrange and put some holes in it. sorta like a "tai chi" version of shooting, but without the really cool music, fans, and swords.

these guys need to grow up and loose the ego.

whatever it is, just shoot it till it drops.
 
Well that certainly nudged the quality of the discussion up a notch or two. :rolleyes:

Not sure who needs to grow up and lose the ego, though; although this is a typical kind of response I tend to see when talking about ideas that challenge what people think they already know. Perhaps I misunderstood your post. Apologies if I did.
 
Ok this one's done. Way too many egos and too many new members of whom we know nothing about surfing in and thumping on their chests about high speed training.

Pickpocket, if you wish to keep posting here, you'll email or PM me your credentials and what personal experience you have with SWAT tactics and high speed training.

Jeff
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top