wow6599
Member
I think I read somewhere that the CZs marked like that (Czech Made) are intended to stay on that side of the pond, i.e. police or military.
Which would make sense to me, because I've thought all along it was police or Israeli.
Century CZ-75B
- Thread starter nebeel
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I think I read somewhere that the CZs marked like that (Czech Made) are intended to stay on that side of the pond, i.e. police or military.
Which would make sense to me, because I've thought all along it was police or Israeli.
hAkron
Member
My '93 and newer guns say Czech Republic. '92 and older say Czechoslovakia
Update!
Got a response from Century and they do have a record of at least WHERE the pistol came from.
So it looks like it was originally an Israeli pistol after all. Not sure what the part number might mean, but MAYBE 'HG' means High Gloss?
Got a response from Century and they do have a record of at least WHERE the pistol came from.
- Model: 75B
- Part: HG2179U-G
- Cal: 9MM
- Ctry: CZ CZECH REPUBLIC
- Type: HP
- Cond: G
- Part:
- Manu: CESKA
- Cust: 201949 Plnt:
- Name: MEIR ROTH LTD RAN: 0 0
- Adr1: 6 SAPIR ST
- Adr2: RISHON LE-ZION IL
- Ctry:
So it looks like it was originally an Israeli pistol after all. Not sure what the part number might mean, but MAYBE 'HG' means High Gloss?
Walt Sherrill
Member
I did a little more digging, and I could find no evidence that CZ ever made stainless guns until relatively recently, but they did make satin-nickel plated pre-Bs, all sorts of high gloss blued guns (pre-B and B) various polycoats, etc., etc.
As I understand it, perhaps incorrectly, the tools used to work stainless steel are different than the steels and alloys used in CZ's standard cast and forged weapons. A rare stainless gun, unless it was a prototype, would be really unusual. A blued gun rid of it's finish, or a nickle-plated gun that has been polished, wouldn't be that unusual. You'd probably see some nickel still in place on the slide rails, and elsewhere, if that were the case.
As I understand it, perhaps incorrectly, the tools used to work stainless steel are different than the steels and alloys used in CZ's standard cast and forged weapons. A rare stainless gun, unless it was a prototype, would be really unusual. A blued gun rid of it's finish, or a nickle-plated gun that has been polished, wouldn't be that unusual. You'd probably see some nickel still in place on the slide rails, and elsewhere, if that were the case.
atblis
Member
Pretty sure Cz has made bright nickel guns. A Google search shows similar looking guns.
Walt Sherrill
Member
atblis said:
Google images could be refinished guns... But you may be right.
I know it's not the definitive source, but the Fjestad Blue Book mentions only the satin nickel finish.. It also mentions matte blue (?), high-gloss blue, two tone (nickle and black [and maybe matte blue]), black polycoat, and matte and high gloss stainless. It says that satin nickel was discontinued in 2012!! (I've had several of those and didn't realize that satin nickel has been discontinued[/U -- it's my favorite CZ finish!!) Stainless wasn't introduced until 2006 and no mention of pre-B stainless guns. As I was reading again this evening, I stumbled across an EXCEPTION:
the CZ-75 Special Edition imported by Action Arms in '93-'94: Matte nickel, bright nickel, matte chrome, brushed chrome, bright chrome, or gold frame with gold or Hi-gloss blued slide, with gold accents.
Those would all have been pre-B models, so if you see B's with those sort of finishes, they're clearly after-market re-dos... or one of the special CZ "one-of-a-kind" guns they show us from time to celebrate special events, anniversaries, etc. Their fancy gunsmith/artists can probably do just about anything.
Check the beavertails -- if they're extended, you can bet they're stainless.
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At the very least I don't believe the the finish is satin nickel. In the picture you can see that the finish on a satin nickel CZ-75 has almost a yellowish hue compared to the Century CZ.
Walt, based on your information on the beavertails, they look identical to me. I would assume that this reinforces the conclusion that that this pistol isn't made out of stainless steel.
Walt, based on your information on the beavertails, they look identical to me. I would assume that this reinforces the conclusion that that this pistol isn't made out of stainless steel.
wow6599
Member
Did you Google this info? Here is a link
http://www.meirroth.co.il/Home.aspx?LCID=1033
http://www.meirroth.co.il/Categories/Content.aspx?ItemID=a338b3f1-121c-47b7-b3f2-c4721bb95b6c
wow6599
Member
This is on the bottom of their home page, which probably answers your 75B questions -
"The company is also an authorized supplier to the Ministry of Defense, regulated bodies, and some of the largest security companies in the country"
I'm guessing they bought up a bunch and looked to Century as a buyer.
I have a satin finish nickel CZ-75B and it looks very different from the OP's gun.
My gun was imported by CZ-USA and the serial number is a single alpha with 6 trailing digits as opposed to the single alpha and 4 digits on the OP's gun. That suggests that the OP's gun is considerably older than mine and it is my understanding that the satin finish guns were still relatively new when I bought mine.
All the controls on my gun (with the exception of the trigger), all the pins, the extractor & hammer, the magazine floorplate and the front and rear sight are blued.
The barrel in my gun is not plated. It is blued and that gives the gun a sort of odd two-tone effect.
The nickel finish is a matte finish and there are no machine/polishing marks visible on the outside of the gun.
I think that's enough to rule out that the OP's gun is a factory satin nickel job.
From what I see in pictures of the stainless guns, the sights and pins are blued as is the magazine floorplate. I'm also seeing very good polishing in pictures of the the stainless guns. No striations or non-uniform polishing marks.
Also, it is my understanding that the stainless CZ75B pistols come with ambidextrous safeties and rubber grips.
I don't think it's a stainless gun.
The pitting, discoloration and the non-uniform polishing marks evident in some areas (note the nearly obliterated proofmark on the triggerguard and the polishing striations in various areas that are not all straight) make me strongly suspect that this gun was originally blued but that the finish had worn badly. Someone then removed all the finish (probably with sandpaper) in an attempt to improve the appearance of the gun.
It would be a good candidate for a trip to ROBAR for NP3 or NP3+ plating.
My gun was imported by CZ-USA and the serial number is a single alpha with 6 trailing digits as opposed to the single alpha and 4 digits on the OP's gun. That suggests that the OP's gun is considerably older than mine and it is my understanding that the satin finish guns were still relatively new when I bought mine.
All the controls on my gun (with the exception of the trigger), all the pins, the extractor & hammer, the magazine floorplate and the front and rear sight are blued.
The barrel in my gun is not plated. It is blued and that gives the gun a sort of odd two-tone effect.
The nickel finish is a matte finish and there are no machine/polishing marks visible on the outside of the gun.
I think that's enough to rule out that the OP's gun is a factory satin nickel job.
From what I see in pictures of the stainless guns, the sights and pins are blued as is the magazine floorplate. I'm also seeing very good polishing in pictures of the the stainless guns. No striations or non-uniform polishing marks.
Also, it is my understanding that the stainless CZ75B pistols come with ambidextrous safeties and rubber grips.
I don't think it's a stainless gun.
The pitting, discoloration and the non-uniform polishing marks evident in some areas (note the nearly obliterated proofmark on the triggerguard and the polishing striations in various areas that are not all straight) make me strongly suspect that this gun was originally blued but that the finish had worn badly. Someone then removed all the finish (probably with sandpaper) in an attempt to improve the appearance of the gun.
It would be a good candidate for a trip to ROBAR for NP3 or NP3+ plating.
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Walt Sherrill
Member
JohnKSa said:
All the things you wrote are true. Most importantly, the Stainless guns have a slightly different frame (needed to alllow the reversible mag release, and to create the extended, upswept beavertail.) I have found no evidence of CZ ever having produced any type of stainless guns prior to 2006. I was surprised to discover that Action Arms did bring in a small number of pre-Bs that were available in a lot of variations (i.e., matte, brushed, highly polished) of nickel, chrome and (shudder) gold finishes or combos thereof. (Other than Saddam Hussein, a movie bad guy in a James Bond movie or a movie pimp, I can't picture anyone holding a GOLD CZ.)
When the finish had been polished off of my pre-B (photos with cold blued finish earlier), it look a lot like the OP's gun. The right Cold Blue (I like Brownell's OX-PHO BLUE) applied carefully is fairly durable, but can require (quick and inexpensive) touch-up from time to time.
Based on the information here, I'm pretty convinced that it's not a stainless gun but more likely a stripped one.
I enjoy a stainless/chrome/nickel finish (although I prefer matte/ satin) which is why I haven't just tried to apply a cold blue to it.
Would it be dangerous (corrosion wise) to leave it as is? The worry I have is that it would run significantly north of what the gun is worth to have a hard chrome or NP3 type finish applied.
I enjoy a stainless/chrome/nickel finish (although I prefer matte/ satin) which is why I haven't just tried to apply a cold blue to it.
Would it be dangerous (corrosion wise) to leave it as is? The worry I have is that it would run significantly north of what the gun is worth to have a hard chrome or NP3 type finish applied.
Walt Sherrill
Member
nebeel said:
Dangerous? Not unless you live in a very humid area, or carry it a lot in warm weather (allowing sweat to get on it while carrying -- some people have sweat that acts like acid on a gun!), otherwise you may never notice a problem. Wipe it down from time to time with a CLP-type product, or a silicon wipe. You'll typically be able to see corrosion long before it becomes a problem.
Cold blue could look pretty good, done right (I showed an example, earlier), and it would end up being about the same amount of upkeep as leaving it in the white -- as cold blue is less durable than hot blue. (If you could blue it, you MIGHT have to be touched up in spots [front and back straps, for example] from time to time, but that's quick and easy.) Just getting someone to machine polish it up to give it a more-uniform appearance would improve the looks. A very mild bead blast would look good on the frame (or frame and slide) and would be an option, too.
A local gunsmith can probably put you in touch with someone in the are who can hot blue it for you. That'll be relatively inexpensive and much more durable than cold blue -- and shipping wouldn't be required. That would be a very reasonable alternative. (That said, I've had great results with OX-PHO [cold] Blue from Brownells.) If you choose to have it done somewhere that requires shipping, check into the shipping costs. FFLs can use the US Mails, and that's cheap... but private individuals must have an FFL do it for them -or- use FedEx or UPS (their overnight priiority services) where are VERY expensive.
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If you leave it in the white, you're going to have to check it often to make sure it's not rusting, especially under the grips and in other areas not often visible.
Anytime you use it or handle it, it should be wiped down with an oily cloth to prevent rusting. You might look into one of the products marketed primarily as a corrosion preventive--like Beeman's MP5, Birchwood Casey's Sheath, Boeshield T9, or Brownell's Rust Prevent. None of those is really great as a lubricant, so you'll want to use something different for lubrication where applicable. They should do a pretty good job of keeping the metal from rusting if you are careful to wipe down the gun with a light coating when appropriate.
By the way, while metal plating the slide & frame would likely cost $140-$300, you could likely get the frame and slide blued or parkerized for close to $100. Those costs don't include shipping.
Anytime you use it or handle it, it should be wiped down with an oily cloth to prevent rusting. You might look into one of the products marketed primarily as a corrosion preventive--like Beeman's MP5, Birchwood Casey's Sheath, Boeshield T9, or Brownell's Rust Prevent. None of those is really great as a lubricant, so you'll want to use something different for lubrication where applicable. They should do a pretty good job of keeping the metal from rusting if you are careful to wipe down the gun with a light coating when appropriate.
By the way, while metal plating the slide & frame would likely cost $140-$300, you could likely get the frame and slide blued or parkerized for close to $100. Those costs don't include shipping.
atblis
Member
I have a hard time believing that's bare metal. It would show.
Walt Sherrill
Member
You may be right, but there are several things suggesting white metal. Go back to post #3, and look at the 3rd, 4th, and 5th photos in that array. The damaged area on the nose of the slide matches the rest. Had it been plated, there likely would have been a very obvious line between plating and white metal -- and flaking on the edges. (You'll almost always see that flaking on the rails of a satin-nickel CZ where metal rubs on metal until the high points are "polished" out by use... but gaps remain.)atblis said:
The CZ style nickel finish is electroplated, and that type of finish is generally taken off by reversing the electrical plating process. Grinding off nickel would be hard -- and attempted only by someone who clearly didn't know what to do. This gun has obviously seen a wire wheel or has been power-polished. For a plated frame to be so badly mottled with the color so uneven you'd expect the finish to be failing . That mottled surface kind of screams dirt or sloppy grinding/polishing down to bare metal. And having owned several polished nickel-plated guns, that's not what they typically look like when dirty, oily, or discolored from being held. Hard chrome also seldom get in that shape. And when any of these finishes start to go bad, they frequently FLAKE away at weak points which get bigger and bigger.
The date in the oval on the slide says 9, but it seems there's a digit missing -- probably from over-aggressive polishing with a wire wheel; it was most likely 99. It's certainly NOT stainless, as the stainless guns have a different frame (extended beavertail, etc.) And as far as I can tell, that leaves only some pre-Bs imported by Action Arms -- guns with other than satin-nickel finishes -- hard chrome, shiny nickel, and gold. (It could have been refinished in Israel, of course.) That seems to exclude almost everything BUT white metal, or an over-polished satin nickel -- and the color there seems wrong, too. Maybe we'll learn of some other special order guns?
Here's a more-polished CZ-like slide on one of my guns --and I know lighting can play tricks... The slide had a matte finish, but I polished the flats with wet sandpaper to bring out a little shine. The photos in the series in Post #3 suggest something quite different (like stainless -- but we know it's not stainless.) As noted earlier, nickel has a "yellowish" hint under most lighting, while hard chrome tends toward "blue." Stainless looks like white metal (or vice versa) because it is white metal (i.e., no finish.) Note: later clarification: the frame on the pictured gun is not a plated finish -- it's something like Tanfoglio's silver version of what they put on top of their WonderFinish (which is a surface hardening treatment.) Whatever it is, it's pretty durable.
After writing all of that and posting it, and then looking back, I kind of feel like I'm flogging a dead horse by repeating earlier arguments -- my apologies. I'm sure you read them. Make your case for not unfinished metal, and I'll just be quiet!
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atblis
Member
My argument is just that bare carbon steel rusts/corrodes/tarnishes if you look at it funny. It looks too good to be bare metal.
What year did this thing end up being? Don't think I've ever seen an S prefix serial.
What year did this thing end up being? Don't think I've ever seen an S prefix serial.
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Tallball
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This is mine. It's an Italian Tanfoglio Witness that was Israeli surplus. It looks kind of like stainless at first glance, but when you look carefully it looks much more like a silvery finish of some kind. You can see some spots where it seems to have rubbed off. It is a sweet shooter.
MIL-DOT
member
Is it me, or does it look like the serations on the slide are facing the wrong way on the mystery (left) pistol? You guys seeing what I'm seeing?
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