Cetme c93

[Gergify]

So i'm looking at the CETME C93 .223 rifle from Atlantic Firearms. I'm having a hard time finding much information on them. Apparently the first versions had bolt gap issues, but they are said to have been fixed with the newer versions.

at $499 w/1 year warranty (whether or not Century's CS is reputable) I'm tempting to buy one. Mainly because I love the H&K styling.

However I have some questions:

1. The past bolts issues aside how is the reliability of this rifle?
2. Can I find spare replacement parts easily (I always like having spare parts like firing pins for all my rifles) ? What about magazines?

 

[nalioth]

As has been noted in other threads, Century's warranty starts the day the gun is made.

Any gun Century manufactures may sit on a shelf for most (if not all of) its warranty period.

1. The past bolts issues aside how is the reliability of this rifle?

"Past bolt issues"? I suspect you'd want to know about "present bolt issues", as it's highly likely you'll have some.

The nice (relatively speaking) thing about Century grinding the bolt heads is that this won't cause a catastrophic end to the rifle, but rather cause it to just stop working.

An actual H&K produced (directly or under license) roller locked rifle is a joy to shoot and will run almost forever with a simple change of rollers. Once Century starts "grinding to fit", you lose this reliability and lifespan.

2. Can I find spare replacement parts easily (I always like having spare parts like firing pins for all my rifles) ? What about magazines?

They are made of 97% unobtanium. Mags are a little more obtainable, but basically what mags were imported with the kits that were sacrificed to make these rifles are the mags that are here.

Unless you know what you're looking at, stay far away from Century-built roller locking rifles (Cetme, C93, C91)

 

[dogmush]

A C93 is not a CETME.

It's a Century build of an HK93. A CETME 's something different.

Any Century RDB rifle will need a close examination upon reciept for build quality, and I wouldn't plan on the warranty being any good. It might be, but be prepared if you have to drop $50 or so into the weapon. It's the luck of the draw on CAI builds.

As for parts, there's a decent, but not huge, supply.

Bolt group spare parts.

Magazines

Different mags

Whole parts kit

Parts are out there, but you might have to look around.

Bottom line, a C93 is cheaper to buy then a real HK, or better made clone, but you might have to work on it to get it right. If you don't want to fiddle, or don't feel comfortable, then save up. Also when comparing prices factor in $50-$100 in parts on the CAI roll of the dice.

I like working on guns, and have gotten all my CAI rifles working, but some took a little more work then others. If you really want to learn how the system works and check needed things, then go for it. They can be a good value. If you just want to buy and shoot a rifle a roller-locked Century is not a great choice.

 

[Gergify]

I guess they still are a crap shoot. Like pretty much anything made by century either you get an awesome rifle or a piece of junk. I saw one recently at a local gun show and It looked very nice.

So assume I find a rifle with a correct bolt gap (if I remember around .20 is a new H&K?) and decent finish, good buy?

I love tinkering with stuff, I really don't mind getting my hands dirty. I throughly enjoy stripping down my Ruger Mk11, Mossberg 500, and M1a and figuring out how everything works.

 

[nalioth]

So assume I find a rifle with a correct bolt gap (if I remember around .20 is a new H&K?) and decent finish, good buy?

No, not with Century.

Century grinds the bolt heads just so a "proper" measurement is returned. Unless you KNOW the bolt head hasn't been ground, you can't know if the bolt gap measurement is accurate.

Century roller-locked rifle builds are a crapshoot, but you can learn a lot about the design if you're a fixer-upper with lots of cash.

 

[nwilliams]

I had one for a while and it shot pretty well. I bought mine when they first came out and paid over $700 for it from J&G.

The C93 is neat gun and I bought it because I really wanted an Hk-93 and I thought the C-93 would satisfy that craving. I ended up selling the C-93 before they dropped so much in price and now I have a genuine Hk-93 made in 1980 on layaway at my local gun shop but because it's in absolutely pristine condition I don't plan to use it very heavily.

Only about 18k genuine Hk-93's were imported into the US so the real ones can be pretty pricey. The C-93 is a good inexpensive alternative to a real one and as long as you don't expect too much from it then it will probably satisfy your desire to own an Hk style rifle at a low cost.

 

[KC.45]

I have a friend with a c93 and have had a little trigger time. The first rifle he ordered went back to century because, I believe it was the rear site, was not welded on strait and it was impossible to zero the rifle. The second one he got had FTE problems for about 5 or 6 mags and has been running well since. As others have said, it seems to be luck of the draw. If you find one that works they are a blast to shoot.

 

[Gergify]

I have a huge craving for H&K type weapons, haha.

For less than $500, I may take the plunge. I don't shoot very often, and when I do, its mainly for the fun factor. If only I could afford a real genuine H&K . Maybe I'll snoop around local gun shows for a while, see if I cant find any thing (whether PTR, vectors or whatever).

One thing I always wondered is how many rifles are actually fine? The only people will normally say anything are the ones who get crappy firearms. What is the the percentage chance of getting a bad one?

 

[nwilliams]

The PTR-91 is more likely going to be a better quality rifle. If you don't mind the more expensive cost of .308 ammo they are good alternative to Century.

The Vector V-93 is definitely going be better quality than anything made by Century. You can get a very nice V-93 for around $1,100 on gunbroker and you'd probably stand less of a chance of getting a lemon C-93.

My personal feeling based on the experience I had with my early C-93 is that for the cost the C-93 is a heck of a good deal. The only problem I had with my C-93 was that it wouldn't cycle steel cased ammo but it loved brass cased ammo, especially PMC. I probably put around 1,000 rounds through my C-93 before selling it and I really didn't have any problems at all after the first 100 rounds. They are extremely fun to shoot and regret selling the one I had.

If you want my opinion I say take the chance and get the C-93. Even though I have a real Hk-93 I'm still considering buying another C-93 simply because they are inexpensive right now and I can use it as a shooter whereas the Hk I don't plan to shoot as often.

 

[1stmarine]

Cetme c93,
I shot this one a lot and I can tell you it is a fine carbine. It replaced the old CETME .308 when spain joined the .223 nato and until the H&K replaced them as MBR.
The only problem that I see is readily available parts in good condition. If you rifle works now, it will work the same for many rounds but after maintenance becomes an issue.
So if you seek this for collection purposes you cannot beat the deal but if you want to use it a lot then in the end you will pay much more and preventive maintenance might be a pain in the neck.
As far as accuracy they in in line with early ARs. 1.5-2MOA.

 

[nalioth]

It replaced the old CETME .308 when spain joined the .223 nato and until the H&K replaced them as MBR.

Say what?

Spain has never used the HK33 for its military. The Spaniards transitioned from the Cetme C to the Cetme L, and currently use a locally-licensed copy of the H&K G36.

 

[Quiet]

No such thing as the CETME C93.

C93 is a Century International Arms creation. Which is a rifle built from a used Malaysian HK33 parts kit with a US made reciever & barrel.


Centro de Estudios Técnicos de Materiales Especiales (CETME)
The 7.62x51mm CETME Model B is what is commonly called the CETME in the USA.
The 5.56x45mm CETME Model L is the rifle that replaced the CETME Model B.

The CETME Model L rifle is visually different from the H&K HK33/93 rifle.

 

[nalioth]

The 7.62x51mm CETME Model B is what is commonly called the CETME in the USA.

The Cetme Model B is the predecessor of the Cetme C (which is what has been imported to the USA as far back as the '60s [by Mars]) and the G3 (the Germans licensed the rights to the Cetme model B and spun out the G3 from it. This is why some parts are interchangeable between the Cetme C and the G3, but not all parts).

 

[Quiet]

The Cetme Model B is the predecessor of the Cetme C (which is what has been imported to the USA as far back as the '60s [by Mars]) and the G3 (the Germans licensed the rights to the Cetme model B and spun out the G3 from it. This is why some parts are interchangeable between the Cetme C and the G3, but not all parts).

Thansk for the clarification.
Always thought the CETME Model B was the production model and the CETME Model C was a lighter weight variant.

 

[1stmarine]

The one I shot is the CETME L (full auto carbine). I thought the C93 was the Altantic codename for that one in semiauto. Sorry for the confusion.
The big change was the CETME form the .308 version and wood stock (heavy) to the CETME L polymer stock and 5.56 nato round(light).
I was in Rota/Spain at the time and shot both a lot. Also visited CETME itself with friends from the Service and I was impressed with the research center and facilities.
Cheers.

 

[macadore]

C93 is a Century International Arms creation. Which is a rifle built from a used Malaysian HK33 parts kit with a US made reciever & barrel.

Are you making this up? That sounds horrible.

 

[451 Detonics]

As has been noted in other threads, Century's warranty starts the day the gun is made.

Any gun Century manufactures may sit on a shelf for most (if not all of) its warranty period.

Not true, if you read the warranty it starts the day the gun is shipped, now it may sit on a dealer shelf awhile which is why you want to order rather than buying from a stocking dealer.

My understanding is these have a pretty good rep, downside is magazine cost and parts.

 

[nalioth]

C93 is a Century International Arms creation. Which is a rifle built from a used Malaysian HK33 parts kit with a US made reciever & barrel.

Are you making this up? That sounds horrible.

I'm not sure where the original kits came from, but yes, Century does use US made barrels in all its builds today (and has for the last couple of years). They've always used US receivers for their builds.

 

[macadore]

I'm not sure where the original kits came from, but yes, Century does use US made barrels in all its builds today (and has for the last couple of years). They've always used US receivers for their builds.

I knew about the barrels and receivers, and the problems with those. I didn't know they were made from a used Malaysian HK33 parts kit. I suspect those are well worn and poorly maintained.

 

[Cecil Sharps]

I have a c93 i purchased from atlantic. It is a decent little plinker. Shoots wolf and brass ammunition fine. The only issues i've had have been magazine related.

The finish is what you would expect from a parts gun build. The bolt is not ground.

The rifle is a bit heavy for my taste. I carried a m16 a2 for years in the army.
The 40 round magazine makes shooting from the prone annoying.

I enjoy shooting it. I can't recommend it because of the warranty. Century farms out all their parts builds. It really becomes luck of the draw.. I didn't know this when i purchased the rifle.

Going with a good retailer like atlantic would mitigate some of the risks.

 

[Atlantic Firearms]

The C93 is a bargain basement rifle & you already know this going into it for $499.00 if you are looking for perfection then you would want to consider the Vector Arms V93 rifle however they are double the price .Our firm offers both products and both are great rifles for the money invested in them a HK33 kit along cost $350 -$400 bucks so a complete rifle for $499 is not a bad deal even if you have to do a little tweaking. We have sold tons of the C93 and honestly had very few reproted issues . The internet has a capacity to make it sound like all of the C93 rifles have issues because you usally only hear the bad storys it is just like the news shows.

 

[nalioth]

a HK33 kit along cost $350 -$400 bucks so a complete rifle for $499 is not a bad deal

If one could demil the rifle and get unmolested parts out of it, it'd be a good deal.

After Century's beavers gnaw the parts to fit, it can be "un-tweakable".

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Quote:
C93 is a Century International Arms creation. Which is a rifle built from a used Malaysian HK33 parts kit with a US made reciever & barrel.
Are you making this up? That sounds horrible.

No, he's not making it up. However, the plant which made the HK-33s in Maylasia was setup by HK.

I bought a C93 last Fall. Looked great, good bolt gap, no grinding on the bolt. Unfortunately it would not cycle as a semiauto. I sent it back to Century who sent me a replacement rifle.

Since receiving the replacement I've put 425 - 450 rounds through it without a single malfunction and no change in bolt gap. Ammo has been a mix of American Eagle 55 grain .223, Wolf 55 grain JHP .223, and Prvi Partisan 5.56 M-193 ball.

Yes, the C93 is a crapshoot. However if you get a good one it's a nice rifle and can satisfy your urge for an HK roller locked rifle for cheap. If you don't get a good one, send it back to Century and they'll make it right, IME. That said, for a better likelihood of getting one which will run right out of the box, save up and get a Vector V-93.