Changing out (corrosive) primers on surplus ammo???

[30cal_Fun]

Is it possible to change out the primer of (corrosive) surplus ammo (for a non-corrosive one)?

Oke, before I start, I think this is a stupid and potentially very dangerous idea. I have no intention of even trying it at this point, but I thought this would be an interesting question to discus.

Let me explain why I came up with this question:
I have Czech 1967 7.62x54R silvertip and Chinese 1974 7.62x39 steel core that both shoot pretty well out of my Mosin and AK47.

Non corrosive, modern production 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R is 2 or 3 times the price of surplus here in The Netherlands.
The problem is that all the 7.62x54r and 7.62x39 surplus (we have) has corrosive primers.
Primers aren't that expensive, about 4.5 cents per round, changing out the primer would give clean ammo for half the price of modern, non-corrosive ammo.

The problem is that surplus 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R has berdan primers, which means you'd have to pry out the primer with a sharp object. Pushing/hammering a sharp object in the live primer of a live round is of course a very stupid idea.
The secondary problem is that most berdan primers have odd dimensions which doesn't lend them well for reloading. My Czech 7.62x54R surplus has 6.48mm primers, which I haven't seen anywhere.

So, not taking into account the primer size problem; can it be done safely? Has it been done (safely)?

 

[fguffey]

I have 30 cal. ammo cans full of Berdan primed cases (new never fired), I pulled the bullets/saved the powder and then formed 30/06 to 8mm57, cost of the case? From .01 to .08 cents each.

Years ago I pushed Berdan primers out with water then Called The Ol Western Scrounged for primers. He talked me out of the notion because of the cost of Berdan primers.

I would chamber the cases after removing the bullet and powder, close the bolt and pull the trigger, remember the case can run to the front of the chamber and the primer can be separated from the case making the job of punching primers out half done, if that is what happens.

Corrosive? Why do you want to avoid corrosive primers?

F. Guffey

 

[LAGS]

I think you are money ahead to just shoot the corrosive ammo and Learn to clean your rifles well after firing them.
Then if you reload these cases, use the non corrosive primers.
What you are talking about is not a good idea to just be changing the primer.
But I purchase Surplus Berdan Primed ammo and salvage the bullets and powder and load it into Boxer primed cases that are reloadable with non corrosive Modern primers.
That way, you can weigh the bullets and group them by weight, and make Uniform powder loads when you relaod them.
You can come up with some pretty accurate ammo that way out of Surplus ammo.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I understand your problem, and you've pretty well covered the hazards.

A long time ago, about 30 years or so, I had a large stash of about a thousand rounds of World War II .30-06 ammunition which was all primed with corrosive primers. I pulled the bullets out of all of it, which was no simple task, due to the heavy tar waterproofing. I broke the seal by setting the bullets back enough to break the seal, then pulled the bullets.

My ammunition was all from the same lot, so I weighed several different powder charges and found the "average" weight used for that lot, and saved all the powder. Then I killed the primers with penetrating oil and removed the tar from the case necks, and punched the primers out with a sizing/decapping die, which got rid of the primers and sized the necks back to original size. Then I swaged out the primer pocket crimps and seated non-corrosive primers, which gave me "new" primed cases.

Then I used the average charge of powder from the salvaged powder (remember it was all the same lot number) and ended up spending a lot of time and labor to have non-corrosive primed ammunition.

What I should have done was just shoot the corrosive primed ammunition and clean my rifles with soap and water afterwards. None of my surplus rifles had suffered from the use of corrosive primed ammunition in their past life, so it wouldn't have hurt to shoot it again, as long as I used a good cleaning regimen afterwards.

In your case, with Berdan priming, I wouldn't even attempt to remove the corrosive primers. Prying them out wouldn't be safe, and it sounds like your theory is for fully loaded rounds, which would make it even more hazardous. I wouldn't do it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Coldfinger]

+1 for just shooting surplus ammo for what it is.... surplus. Cheap and for the most part plentiful. If it is the corrosive nature of these rounds that concerns you most just clean the hell outta your weapons after firing. I shoot my Mosin a bunch! My bore is bright and shiny. Polish the bore with never dull and subsequent cleaning sessions are less taxing. Or just buy brass cased ammo and reload to your hearts content. Winchester makes 54R. its a bit pricey if you find it but its an option.
All food for thought......
Happy and safe shooting

 

[PistolPete45]

Just clean the gun if the ammo is brass case and boxer primer reload it the way you want to . As for steel case berdan ammo your not going to reload any way .

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Another way to decap berdan primers is with water. Google hydraulic primer removal for instructions.

Hopefully you have a source for primers.

 

[Slamfire]

Unless you hate cleaning your guns with hot water, I don't see a need for this. Cleaning gas systems is a mess and you have to clean every nook and cranny, with a water based cleaner, but a bolt rifle is not too difficult.

Corrosive primers gave excellent ballistic results and lasted a long time. They were not hard on barrels, I doubt there is any wear difference between them and the lead styphnate primers that replaced them. Unfortunately the salts left in the primer residue created rust unless washed out with water. Salt won't dissolve in oil, so standard bore cleaners won't remove the ionic residue. You have to find special cleaners, such as Mil C 372 Rifle Bore cleaner, or use hot water in your cleaning sequence. You can dip a patch in hot water, roll that on a brush, swab the barrel, and repeat a couple of times.

I used to add a drop of dishwashing soap to the hot water, that dissolved the organics to a certain bit.

I think the word "corrosive" might be scaring you into this activity, and you don't need to be scared of corrosive primers.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like already said, there is no reason to avoid shooting "corrosive ammo" in your rifle. For some reason it's become popular belief your bore will be ruined by shooting that ammo, it's not true.

Think of this, that Mosin Nagant you are shooting went through WWII shooting that very ammo throughout the war yet 70 years later the bore is fine. Clean the gun and barrel after each range trip and it will be just fine.

What you are looking to do would be difficult with Boxer primed cases but it's just not worth the time and money with Berdan primed cases.

 

[fguffey]

For some reason it's become popular belief your bore will be ruined by shooting that ammo, it's not true.

The story has been told so many time the reason has been forgotten. In the beginning corrosive primers used mercury, . mercury has an infinity to brass, the moment the case was fired the mercury made the case too brittle for reloading. As we all know some cases were tinned inside to prevent 'the problem'.

Books published after the 50s had not gotten the information sorted, some writers included US GI brass loaded from 1940 and 1945 in the 'do not use' column.

F. Guffey

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

I totally get it, I hate corrosive ammo.
I've flushed out a bolt rifle with 3 pots of boiling hot water, pushed through 6+ patches with hoppes until they came out clean, and lubed up the bore with 2 heavily oiled patches. After a week I was curious and pushed through a patch to see whats up. Patch came out orange, boy was I peeved. scrubbed the living hell out of it, pushed through many more patches and oiled it obnoxiously. I havent checked it since, because I dont have the time, but it really steamed me up good, lots of four letter words.
hate corrosive ammo
was it my fault? probably. but I've been cleaning guns for quite some time now, religiously after every range trip and it was my first time with corrosive ammo, I thought I was being careful but it turns out it wasn't nearly enough.

 

[jeeptim]

Pull the bullets and dump the powder in a boxer primed case reseat the bullet.
Works fine gun lasts long time.

 

[30cal_Fun]

Splitting up the rounds in it's components first would probably be the best option if I wanted to remove the primer.

Thanks for thinking along everyone! It's always good to hear fresh and interesting ideas.

Judging from the reactions I don't think there is a safe way to de-prime complete, live round.

My question is simply for the sake of "can it be done"? and less for, "why in your right mind would you want to do it". I like exploring the possibilities of reloading. I would probably still reload if it would only save me $0.01, just for the fun of it.

As for the debate on shooting corrosive ammo:
Enough has already been written about the pro's and con's of shooting corrosive ammo. I'm not against shooting corrosive ammo, I clean my firearms pretty obsessively but the easier to clean the better. I just wanted to provide some background information and a possible "why" about the main question.

 

[illinoisburt]

This is getting overly complicated. Just shoot the surplu ammo as is. Cleaning after using corrosive ammo is really not that big a deal for bolt guns like the mosin-nagant. All of the old guns were used with corrosive ammo for many years.

Rinse out barrel and bolt with soapy water, dry, clean/oil like normal.

OR

Rinse out barrel and bolt with Windex (ammonia version), dry, clean/oil like normal.

OR

Clean bolt and barrel like normal with Hoppes #9.

That's it.

 

[Sunray]

Don't bother. It's time consuming and if the ammo is Berdan primed you can't use Boxer primers despite the nonsense seen about converting Berdan to boxer.
In any case, corrosive primers are not a big deal. Your rifle will not instantly turn into a pile of iron oxide. You just need to clean your rifle properly after shooting 'em. That entails simply flushing the barrel and gas system with very hot plain water then cleaning as per normal. No soap is necessary.
Windex isn't required with or without ammonia. The ammonia does nothing. It's the water content that dissolves the salts.