Civil War over illegal aliens?

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Across the midlands, it's happening. The census figures for the 1990s show Nebraska's hispanic population grew 136%. That figure continues to skyrocket in the 21st century.

I've taken part in two peaceful demonstrations here in Omaha, protesting illegal immigration. They took place near the Mexican Consulate, and I proudly waved my American flag. This took place on Omaha's main street, and many cars passing bye would honk and encourage. However, many cars would also wave to us with their middle fingers. And the majority of these folks appeared extremely Caucasian. Evidently they support illegal immigration? I don't get it. Would these same people forgive me for crimes I might have committed?

I can't help believe that those legal American citizens who still support illegal immigration, or want to legalize it or offer amnesty, somehow consider themselves more humanitarian, or seek to distance themselves from right-wing cretins who wave flags. The dumbing of the American population is certainly working in this instance!
 
with family values so strong they make most of us Americans look bad.
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This is a myth, I have worked and lived in a large Mexican population for years
and what you say is simply not true, that is not saying either that all are bad.

Of course, I realize none of this is going to change any of your minds.
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Your right on that because I see first hand what comes across the border
now vs. 20 years ago..
 
Omaha? Are you the city that has, what, 28 "Mexican" soccer teams in a local league?

A lot of the people in your All-American city--I've been there, liked it--who are middle-fingering you are probably employing cheap Mexican labor in sweat shops or farm work.

My impression has been that the Midwest, our famed breadbasket, is slowly being Mexicanized as the children of farm owners decide they'd rather be graphic artists in Chicago (before those jobs get outsourced to Indian and China) and newcomers are brought in to first work and then own the land.

Yes, there are cultural problems here, and they aren't just Mexican cultural problems.
 
I think as more and more Americans get the chance to actually work with the immigrants and be around them, they'll start to realize that the vast majority of them are hard-working, religious, law-abiding, conservative people with family values so strong they make most of us Americans look bad.

It may take awhile, but Americans will eventually wake up to the fact that there's nothing to feel threatened about, and that most of the anti-immigrant hype is based on racism, plain and simple.
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I get it, I get it, not only are the illegal immigrants not a problem, they are in fact better than the people who are here now. Well, I'm sure you will find many sympathetic ears in D.C., where the master plan seems to be to swap out the old population for a newer, younger, more trainable, more docile one that will be willing to scale down their living expectations for another one, two generations while the rich get fabulously richer.

If these people from Mexico were all that you say, why is it that Mexico is where it is today? Something doesn't quite compute there, does it? Who made Mexico but Mexicans? Perhaps it's because you are missing something in your formula of what makes a Good American, as you are missing something in the values you ascribe to the illegal immigrants around you? You've described, in idealistic terms, someone who does as he's told and is thankful for what he gets. Shockingly enough, that was exactly what the people who came here were running away from.
 
I think as more and more Americans get the chance to actually work with the immigrants and be around them, they'll start to realize that the vast majority of them are hard-working, religious, law-abiding, conservative people with family values so strong they make most of us Americans look bad.
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I'm not about to bash Mexican culture--it has its great and not so great points--but that is about as romantic an assessment of our amigos south of the border as I've heard.
 
Perhaps the "civil war," in the immediate time ahead, will be just a gradual rise in crime statistics, a growing sense of ethnic unease and resentment, further political alienation, declining public services, and rising taxes. People will realize there's a decline and that it's accelerating, but folks like yourself, crazed, will just see business as usual. You might notice that more and more people are leaving California, taking with them businesses and the tax base.__________________
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I agree this is the direction we are going perhaps not a war but increased violence and it all could have been controlled if we had enforced laws.

Many small border towns that I knew in my youth had a 50/50 ratio of Angelo/Mexican but most of the white population has gone all except small numbers of government employees, the town management is much like Mexico. I believe that is the future for much of the southwest as California.
 
Husker1911 wrote:
'Card, I doubt very much you find any of us that are against legal immigration, with some controls installed.
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Agreed. The keyword is LEGAL immigration.


This may NOT be the best example of what's happening, but, it is close to what may happen, if all of this immigration goes, unchecked.
Watch the movie "Red Dawn". I know, it wasn't a very good movie, but, we (as a country) are standing by, watching more and more people 'invade' for the lack of a better term, our country, without proper documentation and without 'checks.'

Scenario: Some of theses illegal aliens could be here for NOT LEGAL reasons. MAYBE they want to do this country (and it's citizens) harm.
 
YES! TO the Ballot Boxes!

First we'll make it illegal to enter into the US without papers.

Then we'll make a HUGE gubment agency to police the boarder.. to keep out all the law breakers.

How can this plan possibly fail? I mean don't they know we made it ILLEGAL to cross into our contry without papers?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Until the states call out the Militia/National Guard (if they have any Guardsmen NOT in IRAQ) and treat this as the inivation that it is.... we well get nothing but lip service from pansy polititons that are being paid by big farmers lobbies to NOT stop the flow of cheap labor.

Who's agenda are they gonna take? THe big farmers $$$$$ or our lowly moral stance against law breakers?
 
wingman said:
I have worked and lived in a large Mexican population for years and what you say is simply not true
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While I disagree with you, I'm not going to stoop so low as to call you a liar.

What can I tell you? Your direct experience, and my direct experience lead us to two different conclusions.

It's not as if I'm some kind of left-wing hippie here either, you know? I'm about as redneck and hillbilly as you get - but I think that's part of the reason why I like most of these Mexican immigrants. I grew up poor, and I learned that it's not the size of a man's wallet that earns my respect, or the amount of education that he has. People earn my respect with their ability to work hard, and the character of their hearts.

Most of the Mexican immigrants I've met are good people, they're just poor and uneducated. Most of the derogatory comments people make about Mexican immigrants sound exactly to me like the things they've always said about people who were poor and uneducated. "Lazy, dirty, thieves, with no respect for the way things are done". They said that about the Irish, then the Eastern Europeans, then us Hillbillies, then the Okies. It's always somebody.

Notice that I said most Mexican immigrants? I'm not going to try to pretend these people are saints. They have their criminal elements, just like we do. Just like we always have. It just really rubs me the wrong way when people try to pretend they're all bad. That's just as ignorant as I would be if I claimed they were all great.

Husker1911 said:
Do you feel the U.S. should take all those who wish to enter into our fold?
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That's the million-dollar question, isn't it?

I think we've got to figure out some way to give poor, honest, hard-working people a way to become US citizens legally. Right now, that simply isn't possible for them, and that's not right.

I think we've also got to figure out some way to improve economic conditions in Mexico so that their entire population isn't desperate to go somewhere else, anywhere else - to find a better life for themselves and their families. Like it or not, Mexico isn't our enemy, and like it or not, they will always be our next door neighbor. As long as things are as bad there as they are now, their people are going to want to come here - and no amount of walls, and no amount of laws are going to stop them. As a father and a provider, I know they wouldn't stop me if I was in their shoes.

I think we've got to acknowledge the fact that we've created this situation ourselves. Our government has gotten addicted to collecting taxes (especially social security) from people who will never claim benefits. Our border security has been a joke for decades. Our culture has developed so that we look down our noses at hard, honest work with our hands. So we've been actively encouraging this problem for years and years, and suddenly we want to point to these people who accepted our invitation and act as if they are felons? That's the worst form of hypocrisy.

I guess what I'm saying is that obviously we need an answer, but I think it's something we can discuss without all the thinly-veiled racism and hatred.
 
Of course the pay-offs from Big Farm, Big Restaurant, Big Hotel, et al. are minuscule compared to the combined economic clout of the American people. It is, of course, as always, all about the money. If we want to take back our Government we are going to have to amass dollars for political pressure and, better, find a way to get back control of all the monies the Government has put a stranglehold on. There is no better weapon than cutting off the money.
 
It's not, first, about whether Mexicans are wonderful or less than wonderful, it's about the fact that millions of them are in this country ILLEGALLY. Being of admirable character does not automatically qualify you to become a citizen of the United States of America.

Why is it up to US to find a way to give people around the world access to U.S. citizenship? Why should that be a high priority? We damn well need to be thinking about the life, and the fate, of our own. Enough with the social worker mentality; that's gotten us into huge trouble already and continues to.

And why is it our responsibility to figure out how to improve conditions in Mexico? It's not rocket science to know what needs to be done down there . Let's stand out of the way and let it happen, and not exploit it for our own questionable ends. If we invest in Mexico it should be because it benefits our country first and foremost. Mexico is thinking of Mexico; we need to think of the U.S. I see nothing in any of the proposals to deal with immigration that would encourage greater involvement in Mexico aimed at enriching the average American. It's all about helping Mexico. Sorry, this is a two-way street. And the idea that we have to elevate Mexico because otherwise they will over-run us is just another form of spinelessness, another way of appeasing.

As for Social Security benefits, I think the balance is negative when you factor in all the other social welfare costs attributable to illegal alien presence in the U.S. But don't worry, the D.C. crowd is already trying to figure out how to not only give Mexicans here illegally what they paid in but far, far more besides.

Have Americans forgotten the value of manual labor? Maybe we have, but that doesn't mean we need to import untold millions of manual laborers to be a constant reminder of our blindness.
 
byf43 said:
Agreed. The keyword is LEGAL immigration.
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I've said this here at least a hundred times, but everyone wants to ignore it and go back to bashing immigrants - so I guess I'll keep trying to get the point across.

Legally immigrating from Mexico isn't possible unless you're rich.

It's not like these people just didn't want to take the time to fill out the paperwork or submit to a background check. It doesn't have anything to do with the amount of time they have to sit on a waiting list. It's not as if they don't want to be here legally - that's pretty much what they fantasize about. Like everything in Mexico, the system is corrupt, and it's inefficient, and it's hideously outdated. Unless you have the money (lots of money) to hire a well-connected attorney who can cut the red tape and then bump you to the front of the 5-year waitng list, it simply will never happen. Period.

So make all the noise you want about "If they were just here legally..." but under the current system - the system we created, that simply isn't within the realm of possibility. You'd be making just about as much sense if you said "I wouldn't have a problem with immigrants if they just had wings and they could fly here."
 
Legally immigrating from Mexico isn't possible unless you're rich.
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So what?

What makes you think that we owe Mexico anything because they happen to be geographically contiguous? If we need more immgrants, why not have a contest, globally, to find the best immigrants anywhere in the world that we can?

There are a lot of Mexicans here already. Give somebody else a chance.
 
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me - as long as they speak decent English, have a lot of money to spend wading through the corrupt immigration process, and don't look too foreign."
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Take note: Emma Lazarus was a well-off New York City woman with a fashionable fascination with Marxist ideas.
 
Those mexicans seeking to enter the U.S. illegally should instead be met at the border, handed an inexpensive surplus rifle (Mosin-Nagant comes to mind) and a couple boxes of cartridges. Perhaps they'd be able to enact necessary changes within their own horribly corrupt country.

'Card, have you opened your home to 37 illegals? No? That seems odd............
 
'Card is spewing the accepted White House line. If you protest the tens of millions of illegals, you're a RACIST and you DON'T KNOW HOW TO WORK HARD.

I've worked harder than you can imagine, BOYO, and I've worked alongside Koreans, Mexicans, Vietnamese, Russians, and other immigrants. My own people are immigrants. Nobody is calling for an end to normal immigration. What we're talking about is a mass exodus of a large percentage of the Mexican and Central American underclass into the US.

I'd like to see GW do some of the jobs I've done. What a piece of garbage. I've NEVER hired an illegal to do my work for me. Not even when I was having to sleep in a shed in arctic cold. There's no excuse for doing so. NONE. If you hire illegals to do yard work you are the problem, and you need a swift kick.

As far as these people starving to death in their homelands, that's BRAVO SIERRA. They can afford the thousands and thousands of dollars it takes to buy Coyote escorts. I couldn't!

So save your party line. Nobody is buying it.
 
A principle reason fed.gov has not wanted to secure the border is that, if they have their way, the border is going to cease to exist.

Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway
http://www.rense.com/general72/mex.htm

by Jerome R. Corsi

Posted Jun 12, 2006

Quietly but systematically, the Bush Administration is advancing the plan to
build a huge NAFTA Super Highway, four football-fields-wide, through the heart
of the U.S. along Interstate 35, from the Mexican border at Laredo, Tex., to
the Canadian border north of Duluth, Minn.

Once complete, the new road will allow containers from the Far East to enter
the United States through the Mexican port of Lazaro Cardenas, bypassing the
Longshoreman's Union in the process. The Mexican trucks, without the
involvement of the Teamsters Union, will drive on what will be the nation's most modern
highway straight into the heart of America. The Mexican trucks will cross
border in FAST lanes, checked only electronically by the new "SENTRI" system.
The first customs stop will be a Mexican customs office in Kansas City, their
new Smart Port complex, a facility being built for Mexico at a cost of $3
million to the U.S. taxpayers in Kansas City.

As incredible as this plan may seem to some readers, the first Trans-Texas
Corridor segment of the NAFTA Super Highway is ready to begin construction next
year. Various U.S. government agencies, dozens of state agencies, and scores
of private NGOs (non-governmental organizations) have been working behind the
scenes to create the NAFTA Super Highway, despite the lack of comment on the
plan by President Bush. The American public is largely asleep to this key piece
of the coming "North American Union" that government planners in the new
trilateral region of United States, Canada and Mexico are about to drive into
reality. ...
 
considering the war on drugs,you would have thought the border would have been locked down during the nixon administration. then,on 912 you surely would have thought the border would have been closed. makes me wonder about commitment. and speaking of commitment,i saw a tabloid at the grocery store that said George and Laura were contemplating divorce. usually i don't give the tabs much credence,but Laura probably feels the same as most everybody else on the guest worker program,so i am surprized she is'nt already gone.
 
longeyes said:
It's not, first, about whether Mexicans are wonderful or less than wonderful, it's about the fact that millions of them are in this country ILLEGALLY. Being of admirable character does not automatically qualify you to become a citizen of the United States of America.
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+1

What it's really about is a government that as of right now is (a) condoning illegal conduct, and (b) dissing off a majority of the citizens of this country in the process. In other words, the problem is not whether or not Mexicans are hard working folk with strong family values.

The problem is the U.S. government.
 
Our kind of voter made their voices abundently clear in the 1994 elections, when we threw the bums who enacted the phoney-baloney Assault Weapons ban out of office. I'm of the opinion that's the type of voter turnout and result that will be highly evident after the next, and subsequent, elections.

My senator was a sponsor of the Senate's latest amnesty proposal. Oh, he shudders to think any would dare refer to it as amnesty! But he is one Republican senator that shall never receive another vote from this constituent.
 
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I think we try ballots and see what happens.
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That's a good idea. Which ultimately can be used against us, as many lib jurisdictions are attempting to give illegals the right to vote. Either openly by legistlation, or by not requiring to see ID when registering or at the polling places.
 
We are not a country of action anymore.... we just sit back and let someone else do it.

I applaud the minutemen, but I haven't given up MY life to go help so I'm equally guilty.

We have become so "nanny-fied" by the various governments to whom we pay taxes that we can't even rally to accomplish closing the borders! A sad state, really.
 
I don't understand the attacks on 'Card here.

If he values hard, physical labor and good attitudes more than money, why is it just "the accepted white house line" for him to say our immigration policy should reflect that?

'Card, I think I see your point and I agree to some extent. If we're a country that respects honesty and hard work more than money and an expensive education, we ought to show that respect by allowing exactly those kinds of immigrants: hard working, honest ones...even if they don't have a million dollars or some fancy sunglasses to bring with them.
 
'Card sez:
5 years ago I felt a lot like most of you guys do. Working with and around a lot of immigrants (both legal and illegal) has really opened my eyes - and it isn't just me. The vast majority of my employees are old, simple, rough-around-the-edges construction guys, and it's been really interesting to see how their attitudes have changed too. Used to be they'd just about throw a fit if I was going to assign someone to their crew who didn't speak good English. Nowadays, that's all they want.
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Is there any chance that your opinion of them might be possibly influenced by the fact that you can hire them for less, expect more work for them, and ergo increase your own profits?

The Almighty Dollar has a way of changing people's opinion about moral and legal issues, 'Card.

Thats basically why rich people and political elites are in favor of unlimited illegal immigration, though they claim they are just doing it to give hard working moms and dads a fair shake at the American Dream.

They also claim that any opposition to unfettered immigration is based on racism. I might point out that you said that very thing as well.
 
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