Class 3 terminology and rules

[Father Knows Best]

O.k., I'm new to this Class 3 stuff. I understand the difference between a "transferable" gun (one that can be owned by a private citizen) and a "dealer only" gun. A lot of other terms are confusing me. Can anyone explain?

What, for example, is a "sear gun"? I see them advertised.

What is a "Form 4"?

I'm in Tennessee. To buy a transferable Class 3 item, do I need to go through a Class 3 dealer in Tennessee, or can I buy direct from an out-of-state Class 3 dealer?

Thanks

 

[Pa. Patriot]

First off, it's "NFA" (national Firearms Act) "stuff", not "class3 stuff"
Just picking at you - I know everyone uses "class 3" instead of the more correct "NFA"... Kind of like clip vs. magazine
"Title 2" would be correct also. (title 1 firearms are non NFA "firearms" like single/manual/semi-auto stuff)

Class 3 is the "class" of special occupational tax (SOT) a dealer of NFA items pays for the privilage of dealing in NFA items.

• Class 1 SOT allows one to import NFA items
• Class 2 SOT allows one to manufacture NFA items
• Class 3 SOT allows one to deal (buy/sell) NFA items

A "Sear gun" is a firearm that contains a NFA registered auto sear (or drop in, depending on platform). The sear itself is the registered "machinegun"

A form 4 is the application to pay the transfer tax ($200) on a NFA item you want/intend to purchase. Upon finding an NFA item you can't live without (it happens) make payment arrangements and tranfer arrangements with the seller/local transfer dealer and fill out the F4 and mail with a check to the ATF. The ATF will approve/deny the form after a several month wait. Upon approval your local NFA dealer (Class 3 SOT pdealer) can then deliver the toy to you, provided the sellers transfer paperwork cleared as well.

When buying NFA items interstate, you must go through a dealer on your end. UNLESS you are a FFL (SOT not needed) yourself.

 

[boofus]

Here's a picture of my FNC sear. It has a serial number and is the registered part in my MG. If I were to remove the sear from the lower receiver the rifle would revert back to regular non-NFA status. I could move it to a different rifle if I wanted, but with a FNC it isn't practical. In the photo below you can see the gunsmith had to mill away half of the back of the mag well to make room for the sear.

The HK sears are installed in removeable trigger packs and much more modular. So they sell for much more.

 

[Father Knows Best]

That's very helpful, guys. Thanks.

So what is a Form 1? I see things listed as being on a "Form 1" and I see listed as being on a "Form 4"? What's the difference?

Does the tax have to be paid when an NFA item is transferred from one Class 3 dealer to another? For example, there is a Class 3 dealer in Georgia that has an item I'm interested in (a suppressed rifle). I'm in Tennessee. I assume that the GA dealer has to transfer it to a TN dealer before it can be transferred to me. Does the $200 get paid twice (GA dealer to TN dealer, and TN dealer to me), or only once?

Also, I have a PTR-91, which is an HK 91 clone. The HK 91 is of course a semiauto version of the G3 assault rifle. I see selective fire (known as "SEF" in the HK world) fire control/trigger groups (entire lowers, actually) for sale all the time. I know they are not drop-ins, as the 91 receiver was modified to prevent a G3 fire control group from dropping in. There are companies that offer "conversions", however. How do they do it legally? Is it possible to buy a registered SEF fire control group that can swapped into multiple rifles?

 

[boofus]

Yes, that's what the 'sear guns' are. They are registered sears installed in a SEF or burst pack.

 

[PMDW]

So what is a Form 1? I see things listed as being on a "Form 1" and I see listed as being on a "Form 4"? What's the difference?

A form 1 is an applacation to make/register a firearm.

Does the tax have to be paid when an NFA item is transferred from one Class 3 dealer to another? For example, there is a Class 3 dealer in Georgia that has an item I'm interested in (a suppressed rifle). I'm in Tennessee. I assume that the GA dealer has to transfer it to a TN dealer before it can be transferred to me. Does the $200 get paid twice (GA dealer to TN dealer, and TN dealer to me), or only once?

See if it's on a Form 3 - Form for tax free transfer from dealer to dealer.

Also, I have a PTR-91, which is an HK 91 clone. The HK 91 is of course a semiauto version of the G3 assault rifle. I see selective fire (known as "SEF" in the HK world) fire control/trigger groups (entire lowers, actually) for sale all the time. I know they are not drop-ins, as the 91 receiver was modified to prevent a G3 fire control group from dropping in. There are companies that offer "conversions", however. How do they do it legally? Is it possible to buy a registered SEF fire control group that can swapped into multiple rifles?

Yes. As was said earlier, those trigger packs contain registered sears. The sear itself is considered the machine gun by the BATF. When the sear is installed in a gun, the entire gun become a machine gun. When the sear is removed, it returns back to its normal semi-auto mode of operation.

 

[OF]

Is that signature really necessary on a 'family friendly' forum, PMDW. Seriously, you're really not as clever as you think you are.

- Gabe

 

[PMDW]

Is that signature really necessary on a 'family friendly' forum, PMDW. Seriously, you're really not as clever as you think you are.

Yes I am. I didn't write that.

If you want to discuss this we can do it privately.

 

[heypete]

As a person interested in purchasing a Class III firearm after I get out of California, I had the following question:

What if parts in a registered machinegun wear out or break? Say, for example, one were to own an MP5K or similar firearm. As it has a short barrel already, is more paperwork needed to get a replacement barrel from HK or dealers here in the US?

What happens if the registered sear wears out (it is a mechanism, after all)? Could the firearm be shipped back to HK or a suitable dealer here in the US and have the worn sear replaced with an identically-serial-numbered sear and the original, worn one destroyed?

I know that all the transferrable Class III firearms are pre-1986, and many have seen a fair amount of use. When I get around to buying one, I'd like to make sure that I can keep it in excellent, functioning condition without a) having to repeatedly pay through the nose, or b) wearing out a functional but non-replaceable machinegun that is unlikely to be available to civilians again.

 

[boofus]

That signature looks like something E. E. Cummings would write.

 

[PMDW]

As a person interested in purchasing a Class III firearm after I get out of California, I had the following question:

What if parts in a registered machinegun wear out or break? Say, for example, one were to own an MP5K or similar firearm. As it has a short barrel already, is more paperwork needed to get a replacement barrel from HK or dealers here in the US?

Every part of a registered machine gun can be replaced, excluding of course the registered part (receiver or sear depending on the weapon). Registered parts can only be repaired, as replacing them is creating a new machine gun in the eyes of the ATF. Even if the new part bears the old parts serial number and the old part is destroyed. Not that I'm saying you couldn't find a new sear, stamp the old serial number in it, and destroy it without anyone knowing... It's just illegal (and for the purpose of covering my ass, not reccomended )

What happens if the registered sear wears out (it is a mechanism, after all)? Could the firearm be shipped back to HK or a suitable dealer here in the US and have the worn sear replaced with an identically-serial-numbered sear and the original, worn one destroyed?

See above.

 

[heypete]

Registered parts can only be repaired, as replacing them is creating a new machine gun in the eyes of the ATF.

That seems rather silly. Short of spot-welding additional metal onto an old, worn sear, there doesn't seem to be much one can do to repair such a part.

Although firearms last a very long time, parts wear out. The sear (or other mechanisms that make a registered machinegun full-auto) will wear out eventually. Perhaps once I get a machinegun, I'll talk to the local ATF office and see if I can discuss this with them in person and work something out. We shall see.

 

[Deavis]

That seems rather silly. Short of spot-welding additional metal onto an old, worn sear, there doesn't seem to be much one can do to repair such a part.

Isn't that the beauty of metal? You can always repair it if you are willing to take the time. Sear breaks in half, weld to fill, grind flush, good as new. Same piece of metal you started with, right?

 

[tyme]

So... if you have a registered sear, and you split it in two and "repair" each half...

 

[Hkmp5sd]

When I get around to buying one, I'd like to make sure that I can keep it in excellent, functioning condition without a) having to repeatedly pay through the nose, or b) wearing out a functional but non-replaceable machinegun that is unlikely to be available to civilians again.

That is why actual machineguns tend to cost more than registered sears or conversions. On a sear gun, you can replace everything but the sear. On a true machinegun, such as a M16, you can replace all of the components except the receiver. Which is more likely to wear out or break, a sear or a receiver?

When buying NFA items, whether inter or intra state, you must go through a dealer on your end. UNLESS you are a FFL (SOT not needed) yourself.

Not true. Only transfers across state lines require a dealer. Private individuals can do Form 4 transfers between themselves if they reside in the same state.

 

[Pa. Patriot]

Not true. Only transfers across state lines require a dealer. Private individuals can do Form 4 transfers between themselves if they reside in the same state.

Of course this is correct.... I think I need to slow down at the keyboard and let my brain catch up sometime - not sure what the hell I was writing there Noted and corrected.

 

[Zach S]

Only transfers across state lines require a dealer. Private individuals can do Form 4 transfers between themselves if they reside in the same state.

Do all states allow private transfers of NFA items?

Some states require that private sales go through an FFL transfer for title I stuff, I assumed it would be the same for title II.

 

[dolanp]

Do all states allow private transfers of NFA items?

Some states do not allow NFA items at all, so no.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Do all states allow private transfers of NFA items?

As with all things gun related, it depends on state and local laws. As far as the feds are concerned, it is legal. And as with all things gun related, there are also exceptions. In addition to an 01-FFL being able to receive an NFA item across state lines as mentioned above, an 03-FFL holder can receive C&R NFA items across state lines.

 

[dloken]

Every part of a registered machine gun can be replaced, excluding of course the registered part (receiver or sear depending on the weapon).

Untrue, the original manufacturer of the registered part can replace it. It just so happens that almost none of the original manufacturers are in business. Most all transferable HKs are conversions (Aside from a few imported in the 60s before the GCA) i've no idea if the few genuine HK transferables would be replaced by HK. I believe there are some transferable Olympic Arms M16 RRs and i'm pretty sure they'll replace a receiver. Colt won't though as far as I know.

You need to go through a dealer (Even a normal FFL but they'd have to pay the transfer tax to get it to them) if it's out of state just like Title 1 guns, unless it's C&R and you have a C&R FFL which in that case it can be shipped to your door pending the transfer being completed by the BATF.

 

[boofus]

Yes the original manufacturer can repair/replace a NFA device. Ruger will still work on their AC556 rifles, which is about the only positive thing about that company.

SWR is currently running an offer where you can send in your first generation HEMS45 suppresor and he will destroy the tube and build you a new 2nd generation can with the new baffle design for a small fee. It will have the same serial number as the tube that was destroyed.

Curtis Higgins (H from S&H Arms) can probably repair/replace one of his sears if he chooses to.

 

[dloken]

Heh, if I owned a sear that still had the original manufacturer in business i'd try and have them replace an unbroken one with a new one made of stronger material to ensure it lasts.

S&H made HK sears, right?