Cock on open or close
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4thPointOfContact
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Cocking on the close, as in the British SMLE, allows the full force of the hand to lift the bolt handle and extract the shell. It was thought that the force of the arm would overcome any resistance to the bolt being thrown home.
The British determined this to be important in the dirt and mud of wartime Europe. It today's hunting environment where lives are not at stake and we seldom crawl around in knee deep mud it's probably not quite so critical.
The British determined this to be important in the dirt and mud of wartime Europe. It today's hunting environment where lives are not at stake and we seldom crawl around in knee deep mud it's probably not quite so critical.
Cannonball888
Member
Cock on close is faster. According to The History Channel the SMLE had twice the rate of fire as the K98.
1KPerDay
Member
That's because it held twice as many rounds. 
Okay, if cock on close is faster, why is it not frequently used for hunting rifles?
I think it would also be more accurate since you would be pushing down against your support while cocking thus less likely to throw off your aim for a quick second shot.
Also with dangerous game, getting off a second shot might be the difference between life and death.
I think it would also be more accurate since you would be pushing down against your support while cocking thus less likely to throw off your aim for a quick second shot.
Also with dangerous game, getting off a second shot might be the difference between life and death.
1KPerDay
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Huh?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
It's simple mechanics.
Modern bolt-rifle design is much more interested in accuracy then speed of operation in a foxhole.
With that said, the old COC military rifles used a very heavy, very long, very slow striker propelled by a relatively weak spring.
Most every modern hunting rifle uses a very short, fast firing pin fall to reduce the lock-time, which increases the accuracy.
Trying to cock on closing when you hit a firing pin spring strong enough for a truck is hard to do.
For instance, the Lee-Enfield used a 13 pound striker spring, and it weighed 9 pounds.
The 93 Mauser used a 19 and weighed about the same.
Modern actions like the 700 Remington use a 24 pound spring.
Savage uses a 28.
SAKO uses a 30 pound spring!
Trying to cock on closing while compressing a very stiff spring, a very short distance, that is 4-5 times heavier then the rifle, is just not gonna work out for you so well!
Using a cocking cam with a high mechanical advantage built into the bolt body to do the heavy work is much easier & faster then trying to do it with the palm of your hand.
rc
Modern bolt-rifle design is much more interested in accuracy then speed of operation in a foxhole.
With that said, the old COC military rifles used a very heavy, very long, very slow striker propelled by a relatively weak spring.
Most every modern hunting rifle uses a very short, fast firing pin fall to reduce the lock-time, which increases the accuracy.
Trying to cock on closing when you hit a firing pin spring strong enough for a truck is hard to do.
For instance, the Lee-Enfield used a 13 pound striker spring, and it weighed 9 pounds.
The 93 Mauser used a 19 and weighed about the same.
Modern actions like the 700 Remington use a 24 pound spring.
Savage uses a 28.
SAKO uses a 30 pound spring!
Trying to cock on closing while compressing a very stiff spring, a very short distance, that is 4-5 times heavier then the rifle, is just not gonna work out for you so well!
Using a cocking cam with a high mechanical advantage built into the bolt body to do the heavy work is much easier & faster then trying to do it with the palm of your hand.
rc
Last edited:
Cannonball888
Member
More to do with the action than mag capacity.
Military Channel ranked the SMLE 3rd, behind only the M16 and AK47, and far above the KAR98 in the best 10 ranked military rifles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C95b_NjXkFM&feature=related
Ridgerunner665
Member
rcmodel nailed it...and explained it pretty well.
Float Pilot
Member
RCmodel has a good point.
The Mauser model 91, 92s, 93s, 95s and Swede 96s all cock on closing like an Enfield.
The much stronger M-98 Mauser and its clone the 1903 Springfield both cock on opening via a camming effect.
A couple other points about the difference.
1. If you are pushing against a 20 pound firing pin spring while chambering a round, it is harder to tell if something is wrong with the cartridge in question.
2. If you catch the bolt handle on a cocked/ loaded rifle and somehow move it up to the unlocked position, the cock-on-closing Enfield will partially extract a live cartridge when the firing pin spring throws the bolt back. This does not happen on the M-98 style Mausers, Springfields, Winchester 70s , Ruger 77s or Rem 700s.
The Mauser model 91, 92s, 93s, 95s and Swede 96s all cock on closing like an Enfield.
The much stronger M-98 Mauser and its clone the 1903 Springfield both cock on opening via a camming effect.
A couple other points about the difference.
1. If you are pushing against a 20 pound firing pin spring while chambering a round, it is harder to tell if something is wrong with the cartridge in question.
2. If you catch the bolt handle on a cocked/ loaded rifle and somehow move it up to the unlocked position, the cock-on-closing Enfield will partially extract a live cartridge when the firing pin spring throws the bolt back. This does not happen on the M-98 style Mausers, Springfields, Winchester 70s , Ruger 77s or Rem 700s.
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