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- Mar 16, 2009
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Hello All,
I have a couple of rifles that require reblueing. Complete reblueing that is, which I realize is not an ideal use for cold blue. Unfortunately it is my only option at this time so I'm trying to make the most of it. I'm seeking opinions, tips, tricks, etc. to get the best possible results.
For curious minds the rifles that I'm reblueing are:
1.) A special edition Model 94 Winchester 30-30 with an octagon barrel and saddle ring.
2.) A Gamble Stores Inc. Pioneer Model 26 tube fed, bolt action .22lr. It's actually a Savage model 5B or 86E I believe, sold under that store name. I'm blueing this rifle first. Since it doesn't really matter it gets to be the experiment. I've started on the barrel as a test.
I have some Hoppe's No.9 gun blue that I'm using at the moment and I also have a Birchwood Casey Perma Blue kit that I was planning to use on the more important rifle. Which of the two do you guys prefer? Or is there little or no difference?
This is the process I use, so feel free to correct and advise as needed:
For metel preperation I sand and then use steel wool on everywhere I can get to, then wipe off with a rag. To degrease I put some alcohol on a paper towel and wipe down the gun, then I wipe it dry with another clean paper towel. Is it a good idea to wipe it dry or should I let it air dry? Should I wipe the alcohol off with water as well before blueing? Also I have some 'Mean Green' degreaser that I haven't tried yet, does anyone have any experience with it? I am wearing rubber gloves so as not to touch the metal barehanded. I've tried sticking a cleaning rod through the barrel to hold, but that isn't stable enough to apply the blue properly.
For applying the blue I'm using a paper towel that I pour blueing onto to wipe down the barrel and then I follow up with q-tips to try and even it out. Are there better methods for applying the blueing? I have heard of some people using steel wool, but I've also heard that steel wool has oil in it, so with the exception of that Oxpho blue this seems counter productive.
The time to leave it set is something I'm curious about. Hoppe's says to leave it three minutes whereas Birchwood Casey says about thirty seconds and stresses not leaving it on too long. Why is that? What does being on longer do? I've read where some people talk about leaving it on all night. One person used oil instead of water to rinse it off as well.
To stop the oxidation after the three minutes I am using water from the faucet in the bathtub. I get it as warm as I can stand and run it over the metal that I'm blueing while rubbing it a bit with my hand (in rubber gloves). Should I be rubbing it or touching it at all? If I don't it doesn't seem to stop oxidizing as well. Once I've rubbed it a bit I turn the water up to steaming hot and get the metal heated up, it dries quicker this way. I then finish drying it with a paper towel. I also try to get the next coat of blue on while the metal is still hot, but I can't work that fast, it's midly warm by the time I get it dry and start blueing. Can I put the blueing on before it's completely dry? I should think not since water is what stops the process.
Also, I have hard water and I'm not sure how bad that is for the process? I shouldn't think it would really be any worse than soft water, since that has a bit of salt in it, but hard water does like to corrode so...... Ideally I suppose I should use distilled water, but that seems impracticle.
Then I add more blue with a paper towel and/or q-tips, then rinse and so on. Should I be degreasing it again in between blueing sessions though? What about rubbing it with steel wool? If rubbed with steel wool it must be degreased correct?
I have blued part of the barrel a couple times now. The first time I did it, after sanding I washed it with a scotch pad using soap and water. Then I alcoholed it. I blued about six inches of the barrel and it blued really nice. It looked great, perfectly even, very dark and shiny. I put on three coats and was quite pleased. However when I rubbed it with steel wool almost all of the blueing came off. There was only a light tint left on the metal.
The second time I blued the barrel (I re-sanded and degreased with alcohol, though did not wash with soap and water) it was not nearly as nice. Much more uneven, and not as deep/dark/shiny of color. In places I it is more of a brown, and in some places I can see the silver gleam of the metal underneath. Plus it seems to be rusting a bit already. It does seem more durable this time though, rubbing it lightly with steel wool isn't taking the blueing off. I just wish it looked like it did the first time, that was very satisfactory in terms of appearance.
I'm very confused on how it could look better the first time, but be less durable. I should think the fact that it blued nicer would mean I did a better job that time and since it's patchier this time it shouldn't be as durable....
I did use the steel wool on it only a few minutes after blueing it the first time, say maybe five minutes, ten tops. On the second time it set at least a half hour, maybe an hour before I used steel wool on it. Perhaps if the first attempt had set a while longer it would of been more durable?
I know cold blue isn't near as good as hot blue, but is this pretty much normal, or have I done a poor job both times?
Anyway, I think I've went on long enough here. Thanks for any advice.
I have a couple of rifles that require reblueing. Complete reblueing that is, which I realize is not an ideal use for cold blue. Unfortunately it is my only option at this time so I'm trying to make the most of it. I'm seeking opinions, tips, tricks, etc. to get the best possible results.
For curious minds the rifles that I'm reblueing are:
1.) A special edition Model 94 Winchester 30-30 with an octagon barrel and saddle ring.
2.) A Gamble Stores Inc. Pioneer Model 26 tube fed, bolt action .22lr. It's actually a Savage model 5B or 86E I believe, sold under that store name. I'm blueing this rifle first. Since it doesn't really matter it gets to be the experiment. I've started on the barrel as a test.
I have some Hoppe's No.9 gun blue that I'm using at the moment and I also have a Birchwood Casey Perma Blue kit that I was planning to use on the more important rifle. Which of the two do you guys prefer? Or is there little or no difference?
This is the process I use, so feel free to correct and advise as needed:
For metel preperation I sand and then use steel wool on everywhere I can get to, then wipe off with a rag. To degrease I put some alcohol on a paper towel and wipe down the gun, then I wipe it dry with another clean paper towel. Is it a good idea to wipe it dry or should I let it air dry? Should I wipe the alcohol off with water as well before blueing? Also I have some 'Mean Green' degreaser that I haven't tried yet, does anyone have any experience with it? I am wearing rubber gloves so as not to touch the metal barehanded. I've tried sticking a cleaning rod through the barrel to hold, but that isn't stable enough to apply the blue properly.
For applying the blue I'm using a paper towel that I pour blueing onto to wipe down the barrel and then I follow up with q-tips to try and even it out. Are there better methods for applying the blueing? I have heard of some people using steel wool, but I've also heard that steel wool has oil in it, so with the exception of that Oxpho blue this seems counter productive.
The time to leave it set is something I'm curious about. Hoppe's says to leave it three minutes whereas Birchwood Casey says about thirty seconds and stresses not leaving it on too long. Why is that? What does being on longer do? I've read where some people talk about leaving it on all night. One person used oil instead of water to rinse it off as well.
To stop the oxidation after the three minutes I am using water from the faucet in the bathtub. I get it as warm as I can stand and run it over the metal that I'm blueing while rubbing it a bit with my hand (in rubber gloves). Should I be rubbing it or touching it at all? If I don't it doesn't seem to stop oxidizing as well. Once I've rubbed it a bit I turn the water up to steaming hot and get the metal heated up, it dries quicker this way. I then finish drying it with a paper towel. I also try to get the next coat of blue on while the metal is still hot, but I can't work that fast, it's midly warm by the time I get it dry and start blueing. Can I put the blueing on before it's completely dry? I should think not since water is what stops the process.
Also, I have hard water and I'm not sure how bad that is for the process? I shouldn't think it would really be any worse than soft water, since that has a bit of salt in it, but hard water does like to corrode so...... Ideally I suppose I should use distilled water, but that seems impracticle.
Then I add more blue with a paper towel and/or q-tips, then rinse and so on. Should I be degreasing it again in between blueing sessions though? What about rubbing it with steel wool? If rubbed with steel wool it must be degreased correct?
I have blued part of the barrel a couple times now. The first time I did it, after sanding I washed it with a scotch pad using soap and water. Then I alcoholed it. I blued about six inches of the barrel and it blued really nice. It looked great, perfectly even, very dark and shiny. I put on three coats and was quite pleased. However when I rubbed it with steel wool almost all of the blueing came off. There was only a light tint left on the metal.
The second time I blued the barrel (I re-sanded and degreased with alcohol, though did not wash with soap and water) it was not nearly as nice. Much more uneven, and not as deep/dark/shiny of color. In places I it is more of a brown, and in some places I can see the silver gleam of the metal underneath. Plus it seems to be rusting a bit already. It does seem more durable this time though, rubbing it lightly with steel wool isn't taking the blueing off. I just wish it looked like it did the first time, that was very satisfactory in terms of appearance.
I'm very confused on how it could look better the first time, but be less durable. I should think the fact that it blued nicer would mean I did a better job that time and since it's patchier this time it shouldn't be as durable....
I did use the steel wool on it only a few minutes after blueing it the first time, say maybe five minutes, ten tops. On the second time it set at least a half hour, maybe an hour before I used steel wool on it. Perhaps if the first attempt had set a while longer it would of been more durable?
I know cold blue isn't near as good as hot blue, but is this pretty much normal, or have I done a poor job both times?
Anyway, I think I've went on long enough here. Thanks for any advice.