"colt is back"

[rklessdriver]

If I tried to explain why some people like Colts, you probably wouldn't understand it anyway.
We just do.

rc

+2

But lets not let that stop the OP and the Ruger gang from bashing COLT just because....

This is THR - So I'll never bother to start a thread about how Ruger sucks because they never made anything good enough for a military weapons contract, how Bill Ruger's best shot came out of his mouth about what kind of guns "Honest American Gun Owners" need/don't need and how their investment casting process makes guns too heavy and clunky.....
Will

 

[CraigC]

I do "understand"value for my dollar. I'll keep my Rugers.

No, I don't believe you do understand. "Value" is not exclusive to things in lower price brackets. Just because something costs more, does not mean it is a poor value. While I do not believe that new Colt SAA's and NF's are a great value, you are paying more and you are definitely getting more. There are people who would rather have one really good sixgun, rather than two or three plain vanilla ones and it is not because they have piles of cash laying around and nothing to spend it on. Affordability is more about choice than anything else. People find a way to afford the things they really want. The custom Ruger pictured above was built 12yrs ago when I was making less than $10/hr. It was important to me and it was exactly what I wanted at the time. So I saved my money, paid for it over time and I would not trade it for half a dozen new Rugers. I make a lot more now but that doesn't make my money any less green than anyone else's.

 

[harvester]

Actually, the new SAA and Frontiers are still 3rd generation guns as no 4th generation exists.

 

[CraigC]

Actually nobody made reference to a "4th generation".

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Seems like a good time to post some pics.
























oh yeah, almost forgot my two Rugers

 

[valnar]

I'm quite happy with my Ruger New Vaquero since I sent it to a gunsmith. I have a quality piece at a lower cost than a Colt.

I did a half-cock conversion with spinning cylinder, 3 clicks (not 4), trigger job and get to keep the transfer bar for 6 up. All good by me.

 

[Ash]

I have both Ruger and Colt revolvers (Police Six and Trooper III). I like them both.

 

[Slamfire]

Colt makes the Mustang, Colt SAA, Colt Flat top, M1911.

They chamber the Flat Top in 44 Special and the gun press sings louder than the Angels during the Second Coming.

Somehow, I don’t feel all hosanna.

Colt walked away from the Civilian market to concentrate on big profits with the military. Which they still are making on Remington made M4’s due to an obscene licensing agreement with the Army.

I will start getting interested in Colt if they start putting some good double action revolvers, something other than the M1911, and when prices are competitive.

Keep your over priced SAA’s, I am not paying that much for a safe Queen.

 

[obturator]

Cocked and Locked...

do you get a better sight picture w/the sp101 front sight in backwards??

 

[CraigC]

They chamber the Flat Top in 44 Special and the gun press sings louder than the Angels during the Second Coming.

It's a New Frontier, not a flat-top. More accurately, it's not a Flat Top Target, which had a dovetailed rear sight and a square blade front sight pinned into a rectangular base soldered to the barrel. It hasn't been made by Colt in a very long time.

Keep your over priced SAA’s, I am not paying that much for a safe Queen.

Seriously, who pays that much for a sixgun and does NOT use it??? Not me, I shoot the snot out of mine. Even modified it a smidge.

 

[JohnBT]

"I do not understand the draw of a weak design, over priced gun that is oiled,polished,then sits in a safe."

Overpriced accurate gun. I regularly shoot my 1967 and 1990 Pythons. My father shot the 1990 gun every week for 16 years and then gave it to me when he moved to The Home. The action is fine and the gun has never been opened.

I own some Ruger revolvers and they're fine guns, too.

After spending $2500 last year on a nice shooter grade Swiss Army Pistol/P210 that's over 40 years old, I find myself chuckling at all the bragging about "My gun is cheaper than your gun." I'm still a working stiff, but I can remember being poor. If I retire this year I might be poor again.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Cocked and Locked...
do you get a better sight picture w/the sp101 front sight in backwards??

Its not backwards...just looks that way. Its a Meprolight Night Sight I put on it.

Here's a better pic of the SP101 front night sight sight.

 

[obturator]

aha, i see now, thanks.

nice polish job, too.

 

[Armed012002]

It seems like a lot of people want Python quality at Ruger prices.

 

[Armed012002]

I would love for Colt to bring back the King Cobra and Anaconda.

These models were more reasonably priced back in the day and updated versions of them could be made on CNC machines.

Sure would be nice to have an alternative to Smith & Wesson and Ruger.

 

[DPris]

I find myself a bit bemused by the "Colt Is Back!" nonsense, and tired of the ghost of "...when Colt walked away..." that can't seem to die.

Colt didn't deliberately "walk away" from anything or anybody. It was a matter of business. Colt M16s were selling, Colt DA revolvers were not selling.


Years of poor management previously resulted in Colt perilously near going under, and at the time the DA revolvers were dropped, the guns simply were not making enough money to keep them in production.

These "Abandonment Issues" really need to be jettisoned.
Don't take it so bitterly.

Colt DAs were not making money, people were buying Smiths, Rugers and Tauri, and they still are.
If & when Colt does bring out a new DA, it'll be built to compete with what those three companies are currently producing.

People gripe about a $1400 New Frontier or a $1200 Peacemaker, and then dream out loud about a new Python that could not retail for less than $2000.

The market will not support a Python, or anything of that quality level & action type from Colt in a double-action design.

Something else to remember is that those who yearn for a new classic Colt DA revolver on gun forums are only a tiny segment of the market. Today, when so many are buying $500 plastic autos, I'd feel comfortable in saying at LEAST 80% of the market doesn't know or remember a Python or Detective Special & couldn't care less about them.
That's certainly the case with much of the younger generation getting into guns now.

If they were to see a new Colt Python under glass priced at $2000 next to a Ruger GP100 for $600, that Python would still be there long after the shop had sold a dozen GPs.
A brand new DS at $1200 (or more) sitting under glass would still sit there while the shop was busy selling several dozen lightweight Smith .38 snubs for less than $500.
The market just isn't there.

It's really time to get over it and move on.
Denis

 

[Armed012002]

Why does everyone think Colt can't sell a Python?

Wilson Combat sells some very expensive 1911s. Freedom Arms sells some very expensive single action revolvers.

Does the market not support Wilson Combat and Freedom Arms because Ruger sells SR1911s and Blackhawks?

There are people out there that want premium firearms. Small market, but they're out there.

 

[SFCRandall]

Regardless of what happened in the past with Colt, it's great to see them on the rebound, at least in the civilian market.

 

[DPris]

Rags,
Wilson & Freedom are small operations & both have built their markets based on premium offerings.

Colt is still a relatively small outfit, much more so than most people realize, but Colt's bigger than both and Colt is not a niche manufacturer.

Colt has to sell in volume, and the market would simply not buy in sufficient volume to justify startup & continued production.
That's just the way it is.

Colt has limited resources & has to put them where they'll bring the most return.
Things are looking up financially for the company, but you will not see a return of either the Python or the DS, both priced themselves out of the market years ago.

Yes, there are people looking for premium firearms, but not enough to make it pay for Colt.
Denis

 

[Coal Dragger]

I agree with DPris to a point, and logic tells me I should agree with him fully in his assessment, but a part of me disagrees (the part that would buy a new Python if offered even if it cost nearly $2K).

I like nice things, but I don't own a lot of guns, but the guns I own are very nice guns. I don't have the desire to own a lot of different guns, or have them cluttering up my safe. I want to shoot the few very high quality guns that I own very very well.

I don't see the allure in buying lots of inexpensive guns, that while functional are not really what I want to have. Besides you can only really use one gun at a time anyway, so it might as well be the best gun you can possibly afford and often times quality doesn't come cheaply. That is not to disparage those that like to have lots of different guns, or that can't afford really pricey guns. I am by no means wealthy, but I am lucky enough to do OK financially, and that allows me to indulge.

On topic the new Colt New Frontiers look like really nice revolvers, and although I am not in the market for anything in that niche I still admire the workmanship that goes into them. For the fitting displayed in photos, and the case hardening, metal polishing, bluing, etc I would say they are a good deal at the asking price. They look nice and tight, with very good metal to metal fit like my Freedom Arms.

For anyone that owns one I do wonder how the chamber measurements are especially the chamber mouths? I have read that Colt's has tended to put out chamber mouths on their SAA's that are on the large side. Just curious if they have changed that trend.

For those that gripe about the price, and point to less costly alternatives I don't know what to tell you. Some of you may scoff at the more expensive Colt's, Freedom Arms, and even more costly custom guns from Bowen Classic Arms. Maybe this is because you have never had the chance to handle or fire one, maybe it is ingrained thrift that makes the extra expense offensive to you, maybe just jealousy. At any rate most who don't see the value of a premium product probably never will, and that is OK. Just like I will not likely ever understand the enthusiasm for guns that many others like.

 

[tipoc]

The story of Colt over the last several decades is a fascinating one. But it never "abandoned" the civilian market.

Several years ago Colt devided into two separate companies one focusing on the military market and the other the civilian.

Colt Defense LLC is a growing companies with several hundred workers and technicians in the U.S. and Canada. They are the worlds largest manufacturer of the M16 and the M4. They have substancial contracts with both the U.S. military and internationally. They have been growing in the past decade.

Colt Manufacturing has focused on the 1911 in a variety of forms and single action revolvers. It has about 100 employees. It stopped production of the Python a few years back as they were not selling. Pretty much they have been selling all the 1911s they can produce despite the steep competition from many others. Their other guns, like the Agent have also been successful and helped lay the ground work for their reintroduction of the Mustang and the New Frontier.

tipoc

 

[Auto426]

I agree with DPris to a point, and logic tells me I should agree with him fully in his assessment, but a part of me disagrees (the part that would buy a new Python if offered even if it cost nearly $2K).

I feel the same way. DPris for the most part hit the nail on the head. However, I agree that there would be people lining to purchase a new Python. They wouldn't have near the demand of the other guns such as the 1911's or the AR's, but it would be enough to keep the Custom Shop folks busy polishing and hand fitting for a few months out of the year.

However, times have changed and Colt got rid of the old DA revolver machinery a long time ago. Bringing back the DA revolvers would take one massive investment in new machinery, new employees, and employee training. The guns produced would be much closer to the King Cobra and Anaconda than the Python, as Colt simply couldn't compete with S&W on price using the same materials and techniques they did 40 years ago. I'm sure they would also be met with unending cries of "the old guns are better" from revolver fans, as that particular community seems to have issues with change. Just look at how much crying you see about S&W. It simply doesn't make much sense for Colt to bring back DA revolvers in today's world.

 

[Ash]

How is it, then, that you can get Colt double action revolvers made in the Philippines by Armscor? It can be done, if desired. Saying that, the market is still small, and Colt, like any company, will produce goods demanded by enough of the buying public to make a profit. In either case, I do like my Troopers, which were more easily made than the Python and were very strong. 357 and 22lr, both the same size, are a great combination.

 

[Armed012002]

I dont think the "huge investment" people are talking about is all that huge of an investment.

Wouldn't the cost be jigs, forging dies, and software programming of CNC machines?

If a new product flops, the CNC mills and lathes could be reprogrammed and the only loss would be the jigs and forging dies.

All that old tooling Colt got rid of could be replaced with modern CNC machines and the majority of the cost could be reinvested.

The largest cost is people. Colt could save even more money by moving the whole operation to the South without the unions and the state of Connecticut constantly getting in the way.

South Carolina and Georgia have been very friendly to FN and Glock.

 

[CraigC]

Yes but FN's and Glocks don't require a lifetime of experience and hand-fitting by expert craftsmen. All the CNC machinery in the world and high tech equipment can't replace that and the skills required cannot be rushed to maturity. Just like the fine shotguns and rifles of old London, that stuff can't be built by your neighborhood machinist, no matter how good his equipment is. It's the men that make them what they are.