sabbfan
Member
Colt's Facebook page today has pictures of their custom shop "operating like normal" trying to alleviate any fears of them shutting down.
COLT Layoffs ?
- Thread starter il.bill
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Brent Turchi was the full-time Custom Shop manager.
He did not work on the guns himself.
He has been replaced by what will essentially be a part-time manager, who will also not be working on guns himself.
The backlog is due to the fact that the CS has not had enough gunsmiths to keep up with the order load.
Denis
He did not work on the guns himself.
He has been replaced by what will essentially be a part-time manager, who will also not be working on guns himself.
The backlog is due to the fact that the CS has not had enough gunsmiths to keep up with the order load.
Denis
CoalTrain49
Member
Wasn't there a company US Firearms Mtg. that produced SAA revolvers there in the old Colt building? If I remember everything they built was a custom order.
If they went under exactly how is Colt going to do any better building custom SAA's? It seems to me that there really isn't that much of a market for a custom SAA around 2K. If I recall USFA made some nice guns.
Colt isn't going to make it on their custom 1911 work either. Way too much competition from other semi-custom gun mfg's.
So really all they have is another Gov't contract if they are to stay in business. That seems unlikely because any new contract will require something a little different than an outdated 5.56 carbine. While other companies are doing their product development with new cartridges like 6.8 SPC, Grendel and 300 BLK, Colt continues with the same tired 5.56 M4. The civilian and military market is leaving Colt regardless of the current situation there.
If they went under exactly how is Colt going to do any better building custom SAA's? It seems to me that there really isn't that much of a market for a custom SAA around 2K. If I recall USFA made some nice guns.
Colt isn't going to make it on their custom 1911 work either. Way too much competition from other semi-custom gun mfg's.
So really all they have is another Gov't contract if they are to stay in business. That seems unlikely because any new contract will require something a little different than an outdated 5.56 carbine. While other companies are doing their product development with new cartridges like 6.8 SPC, Grendel and 300 BLK, Colt continues with the same tired 5.56 M4. The civilian and military market is leaving Colt regardless of the current situation there.
USFA was not strictly a custom order factory, where everything they built was a custom order.
They put out high quality Peacemaker clones in various standard models, with the occasional custom order, and unlike Colt USFA's business model was to make everything in-house, which can be a very expensive way to do business.
Why their owner abruptly dropped USFA production & switched to the Zipgun is still a mystery.
Not that much of a market for custom SAAs?
You're not paying attention.
Isn't going to make it on custom 1911s?
Did you miss the part about the 2-year Custom Shop backlog?
Did you miss the other part about the Custom Shop being a profitable unit inside Colt?
Denis
They put out high quality Peacemaker clones in various standard models, with the occasional custom order, and unlike Colt USFA's business model was to make everything in-house, which can be a very expensive way to do business.
Why their owner abruptly dropped USFA production & switched to the Zipgun is still a mystery.
Not that much of a market for custom SAAs?
You're not paying attention.
Isn't going to make it on custom 1911s?
Did you miss the part about the 2-year Custom Shop backlog?
Did you miss the other part about the Custom Shop being a profitable unit inside Colt?
Denis
CoalTrain49
Member
I think there is a market for SAA's, just not at 2K. I'm not a collector or into cowboy shooting. Maybe you are closer to those who are and have more information than I.
I've heard many, some on this forum, and others, that use the custom shop, say they are taking their work elsewhere due to slow turnaround and management. There are many shops that can do custom work in less time. Lots of companies have profitable units. That doesn't necessarily equate to a profitable company. One needs to understand how an LLC company works (taxed) to enhance the overall bottom line for it's owners. Trump declared that he was the "king of debt" and we all know how much his LLC is worth. His LLC has been profitable for years using multi million dollar tax write-offs and credits from failed business deals. It's just the way business works. A 176,000 pages of tax code and good attorneys make that possible. None of us has any idea if Colt is profitable or not. My guess it isn't and hasn't been in a long time. That's the beauty of an LLC. It isn't a listed on any exchanges.
Colt isn't doing anything different and hasn't in a very long time. No new products except what's already available from numerous other companies. A new revolver and a new low end AR in a saturated market isn't going to turn anything around.
The AR market (Colts bread and butter) is moving away from 5.56. Many companies are doing the required R & D on newer better cartridges and offering AR's built for those that run as well as any 5.56 rifle. I just looked at their 2017 catalog and they don't list anything but 5.56 and 9mm for their AR's. The sun is setting on the 5.56 AR and everyone knows it.
Colt is being kept alive for it's non-profitability and when that ceases to help the bottom line of the owners it will be sold. I think people that work (or worked) there in mgmt. know that. It isn't too far away.
I own a number of Colts, just purchased an old one (99 % condition) a few months ago. Not because it's any better than any other 1911, but because it will increase in value when the company is sold and gutted.
And I do pay attention. I'm invested in the market. A part of my income is from those investments. I'm just not invested in any companies that manufacture firearms. That's the roller coaster from hell.
Edit. I just realized that Colt bought LWRC. Probably a profitable company given LWRC's military contract. If you can't build a good company you can always buy one, if you know how to leverage debt.
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CoalTrain49
Member
JeffG
Member
I haven't considered a Colt purchase in 15 years.....
I predict that when Colt files for bankruptcy the next time - and you know its gonna happen - the Colt Cobra will take the blame. It is a perfect example of what is wrong with Colt. They sell what they want not what customers want. Who wants a 25 ounce concealed carry gun with only 6 shots? And the retro guys who like revolvers want glossy blue or stainless and not the ugly matte stainless finish on the Cobra.
BrocLuno
Member
That would be me. I have the Colt I wanted - and it's blue and shiny. I could see them doing a profitable unit that makes toys for the Cowboy Action crowd (pistols, rifles & shot-guns). But I suspect they'll leave that up to others ...
They have serious competition in the AR space. That market is splintering, even for the military. The Army is going one way, the Marines slightly different... Unless we get into something in SE Asia (?), that market is pretty well stocked.
The armories have the basic chassis. It will be loads of replacement parts for the foreseeable future. That is not a space where Colt seems able to compete well ...
They have serious competition in the AR space. That market is splintering, even for the military. The Army is going one way, the Marines slightly different... Unless we get into something in SE Asia (?), that market is pretty well stocked.
The armories have the basic chassis. It will be loads of replacement parts for the foreseeable future. That is not a space where Colt seems able to compete well ...
Deanimator
Member
They should let Ithaca buy them out so that I can drive to Upper Sandusky and buy a new Colt revolver fresh off the line.
Failing that, they should sell out to the Philippines M1911 makers who can then retire their Colt semi-clone revolvers and turn out real Colt revolvers.
Failing that, they should sell out to the Philippines M1911 makers who can then retire their Colt semi-clone revolvers and turn out real Colt revolvers.
Elkins45
Member
Somebody forgot to tell Kentucky about this. Walk into any gun store within 100 miles of me and almost all the AR pattern rifles are .223, with maybe a couple 300 blackout. Racks and racks of them. Same thing on Armslist.
Economy of scale will favor .223 for years to come due to the availability of military ammo and components.
salt&battery
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that also means to many have been made and nobody is buying the ones you saw. the AR is not going anywhere but have been overproduced which is good to bring the prices down
Elkins45
Member
Yeah, I have been seeing ARs on Armslist for as low as $500. Given how normally overpriced most stuff is on Armslist, that means they are probably only getting $400-450 if the sell them. Buds has at least one non-polymer complete rifle for sale right now below $500 new IIRC.
I think the guys listing used Andersons and DPMS for $600+ are banking on people paying a $50-100 premium for a private sale gun with no 4473.
tipoc
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"I think there is a market for SAA's, just not at 2K"
Colt lists an MSRP at $1600. So maybe 1400. on the street new. There is a market for it because it is a Colt. They also still produce the New Frontier for about $100. bucks more.
http://galleryofguns.com/genie/KeywordSearchResults.aspx?kw=colt#
tipoc
Colt lists an MSRP at $1600. So maybe 1400. on the street new. There is a market for it because it is a Colt. They also still produce the New Frontier for about $100. bucks more.
http://galleryofguns.com/genie/KeywordSearchResults.aspx?kw=colt#
tipoc
tipoc
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The market for both 1911s and ARs is chock full of competition. S&W and Ruger are making a move to drive a good many others out of the market. CDNN is selling entry level reliable ARs from them at $500. and under. With CS departments to back them.
The waves of panic buying of the last 8 years have regressed. So what we are living with is the beginning of the revelation of the weaknesses in the industry that were hidden by that panic buying.
The waves of panic buying of the last 8 years have regressed. So what we are living with is the beginning of the revelation of the weaknesses in the industry that were hidden by that panic buying.
FLNT4EVR
Member
I just got some back ordered colt parts from Brownell's . ( Recoil spring assembly for 3 in Defender 45 ) I had been waiting almost 3 months. I'm glad i ordered more than 1 . Once they're gone from stock
it may be an even longer wait .
it may be an even longer wait .
The best thing that could happen to Colt is to be aquired by Beretta. Beretta has a great track record of not destroying the brands they acquire. Beretta would pick up two lines they currently don't make, the 1911 and the AR, and they'd have a prestige SAA to go with their Stampedes and the Ubertis. Colt would have a powerhouse partner that knows how to survive in the firearms business.
I don't know so much about cs department, but it is been 2 months since I returned my 9 mm brand new never fired just to fix the mag catch. So go figure the rest of the company. Really, wants to go to bass pro and ask for my money back even when my heart is with the brand.
CoalTrain49
Member
Closer to 2K if you can find one. Your 1400 street price is about right for used. The link you posted is worthless to establish a price. There are none available there or from any other distributor. Most of the new ones go up for sale at auctions. Not a real money maker for Colt.
CoalTrain49
Member
And those rifles will be dumped below cost. Just about everyone who wanted an AR has bought one or six already. Ammo companies will always sell a lot of .223 because of that. If I were in the market for an AR, and I'm not, I would at least explore the new cartridges that are available. .223 is a good cheap plinker originally developed as a varmint cartridge using slow twist rates and very light bullets. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear but the army spent millions trying to do just that. The civilian market is moving away from the .223 AR. Nobody is talking about .223 being the best performing cartridge for an AR anymore.
I talked to a dealer last night that is setting on 30 AR's. He says he will have to take a loss to dispose of them because they are all .223. Things change pretty fast these days.
When the military finally gets its act together the .223 will become a civilian cartridge again just like it was in the beginning.
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Elkins45
Member
So what you are asserting is that if those ARs were just chambered in a different caliber they would be flying off the shelves?
I don't agree. If someone's going to buy one, they're going to buy it in .223 unless they already own several. And if that's the case, they'll just buy uppers or barrels in the new calibers, not complete rifles.
Your dealer may very well have to dump those guns below cost, but having them chambered in 6.5 Grendel wouldn't make them sell any faster.
I don't agree. If someone's going to buy one, they're going to buy it in .223 unless they already own several. And if that's the case, they'll just buy uppers or barrels in the new calibers, not complete rifles.
Your dealer may very well have to dump those guns below cost, but having them chambered in 6.5 Grendel wouldn't make them sell any faster.
Dog Soldier
member
I have no idea what the next popular firearm will be? But the demand for the AR-15 is cooling fast. I doubt new calibers will be a successful market choice. Many of the AR-15 manufacturing companies will not survive. They will be around for years as they are unique to America sporting rifles.
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