Colt SAA ... Why So Much?

[mattx109]

I'm very interested in the Colt Single Action Army, but I was dismayed to discover how much they cost. Is there any good reason why Colt can charge $1000 plus for these guns while a modern revolver is so much less?

Are there less expensive lines offered by Colt that I don't know about yet, or are all incarnations of this piece so costly?

 

[halvey]

LOTS of hand fitting/making on that model. I mean LOTS.

Labor isn't cheap.

 

[Onmilo]

Current Colt Single Action Army revolvers are hand fitted, hand assembled and premium finished by the Colt Custom Gun Shop.
These revolvers aren't run of the mill line production and you get what you pay for.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Yes. Because for a lot less you can get a USFA SAA. For $500 a matte blue finish Rodeo. For $995 a Turnbull Rodeo with carbona blueing and case hardening that will put any Colt to shame.

Why is it so much? Because it says Colt.

The mystique of the pony is gone for me. I'll take the better made pistol.

 

[halvey]

Why stop there? Just get a $299 Ruger.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Because the Ruger isn't a SAA. So you're saying a Kimber, RRA, STI, or Springfield can't be a 1911 because Colt didn't make it?

USFA makes a better SAA then Colt currently produces.

 

[halvey]

So you're saying a Kimber, RRA, STI, or Springfield can't be a 1911 because Colt didn't make it?

No. When did I say that?

The guy asked why the SAA's are so expensive. A couple of us responded as to why. He didn't ask for suggestions or alternatives with other companies. If he would have asked for options on it, fine. He didn't. He asked why they are $1k.

Great, you like the USFA. They are good guns. What else do you want?
You hijacked another thread about Colt SAA a few days back. Quit p!ssing on the SAA already and go shoot your USFA and enjoy it.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

A) the first post was "why they cost so much?" I responded that it was because the name COLT is on the handgun and was not because of a superior product.

B) you brought up the Ruger as if to imply that it was a SAA varient, which is most certainly is not

C) the thread you bring up was an inquiry by Wildalaska about interest in a group buy. I stated that I was interested in a group buy on SAA, but not the Colt as I prefer the USFA.

 

[halvey]

Please tell the whole truth.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=96669&highlight=colt+saa

StrikeEagle: Whoa!!! Is the Colt SAA currently being manufactured?
A couple posts down…

Wildalaska: Anybody want a group buy on em? (you clearly see he's refering to the Colt right?)

The USFA wasnn’t mentioned until you chimed in. Wildalaska never asked if you wanted a buy on USFA, just the Colt.

By the way, if you are paying for the Colt name, why are basic Colts less than basic Kimbers? And why are basic Colts near the same price as a basic Springfield or Dan Wesson. And why is the Special Combat or Gunsite less expensive than the same models on those other lines?

 

[BigG]

So you're saying a Kimber, RRA, STI, or Springfield can't be a 1911 because Colt didn't make it?

He didn't say it, but I would. There is no JMB sanctioned 45 Auto but a COLT. Same thing with a SAA. There are copies but the original is made by Colt. Sorry if that ruffles your feathers.

 

[J Miller]

mattx109,

I can't really answer your question about why the Colt SAA is so expensive. Other to say that it is a Union Shop (United Auto Workers of all things), and they have had tremendous labor, management, and owner problems in the last half century.

I can't really accept the statement that there is a lot of hand fitting in the Colts. Hand fitting indicates guns that are as perfect as can be had. Such as the old Pythons used to be. I've read way too many posts by purchasers that have stated they had to send their brand new SAAs back to Colt, or to a Single Action specialist to be made right. If this is being hand fitted, then they are being fitted by amatures.
In this day and age, if Colt is still hand fitting an antique design when USFA and others are using computerized manufacturing methods, Colt is doing something wrong.

I'm not totally condemming Colt because I also desperitly want a "REAL" Colt Single Action Army. Have for as long as I can remember. I just think they arn't making their guns as good as they could.

Now for the term Single Action Army, only Colt made them. Any body elses guns are just copies or replicas and don't deserve to use this name.

Since the 1911 and 1911a1 was a military designation of a model designed by John Moses Browning and was manufactured by Colt as well as a number of other companies, I believe that it's use by other current manufactures is acceptable.
However, the term Government Model is pure Colt. Colt and Colt alone made the commercial Colt Government Model. No body else did.

Just my not so humble thoughts on this subject.


Joe

 

[mattx109]

Thanks for the info.

I wasn't aware that anyone else was making a SAA (clone, of course), but it's good to hear. I'm looking for a shooter, and I'd prefer not to drop a grand if I can help it.

 

[halvey]

Matt
You probably got more info than you were looking for here!

I've heard of a lot of guys buying a SAA Ruger COPY to shoot like crazy, and the Colt SAA to occasionally shoot. Of course that runs up the price quite a bit, but hey, can't take it with you.

Good luck with your choice.

 

[Jim March]

Matt:

There are SCADS of clones of the SAA out there, most made in Italy of all places. The "Spagetti SAAs" range from "somewhat decent" to disgusting but they're not even up to the quality level of the Colt SAA except in rare cases (American companies that bought Italian SAAs and then hand-finished/improved them - AWA was doing that until very recently, Cimmaron sorta does).

Recent Colt SAAs have indeed been noted as having quality control issues.

USFA is making what really appears to be the best true SAA-pattern guns available.

Their business model borders on weird: they make basically just one line of guns. The ones they finish in-house in rather plain fashion get sold as "Rodeos" for $500 or so, the unfinished ones go out to Doug Turnbull to get the "full mack daddy pimp treatment" - OK, that's not fair, they look really, REALLY good plus are more historically period-correct than current Colt SAAs.

But either way, the guns SHOOT the same, tight lockup the same, trigger the same, etc.

So people will buy two Rodeos for their cowboy action shooting "beater gun needs" and maybe one primo high-bucks version to glass-case in the office wall or something.

GREAT business plan, in my opinion. If you're on a budget, you can still get a good shooter. You can also take that starter model, do a complete hand-polish to a mirror finish yourself (lots of labor!), send it off to have a high-end blue job done and end up with something almost as pretty as a Turnbull model at much lower cost.

 

[mattx109]

I've been checking out the USFA website. They seem to have some pretty nice engraving options, although that's not really my thing.

Thanks for the suggestions, Jim.

 

[Wildalaska]

Over the past three years I daresya I have sold probably 50 SAAs to sophisticated buyers and collectors.. in fact I had an advanced collector buy one the other day and he noted that Colts quality right now is impeccable.....

No issues as to any of these revolvers..

Doug Turnball is a craftsamn and we have the highest respect for him. He takes a $250 Italian Clone and works his majic on it and that is great.

Anybody want a nice deal on an SAA let me know...we get them in in dribs and drabs..

WildmadeintheusaAlaska

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Halvey, my jumping into the StrikeEagle thread in reply to Wildalaska is no more of a hijack then Wildalaska jumping in to offer a sale. Sorry if you think that way.

JefflovingmymadeintheusausfaBieler

 

[Wildalaska]

Halvey, my jumping into the StrikeEagle thread in reply to Wildalaska is no more of a hijack then Wildalaska jumping in to offer a sale

Dude let me explain sumpin to ya here, I'm not gonna suffer a loss in my bottom line from not selling another gun or product on this this Board, I got plenty of other venues to do so, so ya know what, if I have to take grief and snide remarks from you for trying to do people a favor with group buys Ill just stop doing it

WildicomehereforfunanywayAlaska

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I DON'T think you hijacked the thread and I appreciate the sales and opportunities your provide. What I was pointing out to Halvey is that my jumping in with a reply to your post on a proposal you were offering is as valid as you stepping into a thread and offering your services.

If that's not to your satisfaction, we can take this to a PM.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The mystique of the pony is gone for me. I'll take the better made pistol.

Amen! I've looked at current production Pythons and Single Action Army models. Even Ruger makes better guns these days, and I don't hold Ruger in very high regard.

Colt hasn't been a competitor in the firearms market for several decades.

 

[MrAcheson]

To get it the thread back on track... Colt charges so much for two reasons. (1) They do put some work into the guns. The turnbull color-case differential hardening is beautiful and historically authentic. Its a low volume custom shop item so they don't bring down the price much through volume. Its debateable whether they actually do enough hand work because reviews are mixed, but they definitely do more than the italian guns.

(2) They can. Seriously, nobody else makes a Colt. As other people on this thread have shown, some people will pay more for the name.

 

[StrikeEagle]

So Are We Agreed...

... that USFA makes the BETTER SAA-type guns? And Colt CAN be good... but the quality these days is uneven?

Sigh... I have a Third Gen .45 Colt SAA and the action and trigger... are not what I expect from a firearm of that price range...

My Second Gen SAA's are perfect-perfect, though. And I DO shoot them. Rather a lot. Of course I didn't pay today's prices for them... sigh...

A really nice Colt SAA is a beautiful thing. I don't blame you for wanting one, and I don't blame you for wanting that name on it. Try to actually SEE it before you buy it, though if you can. I'm hung up on these revolvers too... comes from watching a bazillion Western TV shows when I was a kid in the 50's I guess.

best,
StrikeEagle

 

[Sunray]

Mostly you pay for the name. The innards of an SAA are the same as they were 100 years ago. They're a friggin' nightmare of odd springs. Hand fitted parts, yes, but it's still a 100 year old design.
If you want a single action, buy the Ruger.

 

[Jim March]

StrikeEagle: you are NOT the first one to say things like that about recent-production 3rd-gen Colt SAAs having..."issues".

Now, the good news is that according to the various gunsmiths, the underlying metalurgy on a Colt is top-notch, so a fairly minor tuning session will ALWAYS get you something better than the Italians. The better Italian specimens can often be tuned to feel nice, but long term, it ain't the same.

The USFA *is* really as good "at the core" as a Colt, AND they seem to be able to sort out "minor issues".

The ONLY complaint I've ever heard on these boards re: a USFA is that every once in a while, Turnbull will do a turkey cosmetic-wise. Case coloring just..."fails" every so often. We've had one report to that effect, anyhow.

Well all that means is I want to see it first, and if I order one I'll turn back if it ain't right (at these prices!!!).

But the *internals* are almost always spot-on, and that's what's harder to spot (which is why I came up with the "checklist" in the first place - spotting wheelgun glitches is a pain unless you're systematic about it).

With the Colts, at prices up past $1,500, most dealers will NOT let you handle one. A fair percentage are kept by purchasers in display boxes in "unturned" condition, which means it's possible NOBODY will ever realize this specimen might have a trigger that feels like it's got dried cheerios powder filling the grip frame .

Well if you're buying a shooter, that's...sorry, MADNESS. Considering the reports of glitches both in print and online.

Now, a dealer might not want you "turning" his display-model Turnbull-prepped USFA either (worth $1,100 - $1,300 street price range ballpark?). But your odds it will pass a "checkout" in flying colors appears to be much higher than with a real brand new Colt SAA so to me, it's an acceptable risk.

If I wanted to eliminate even that risk, I'd buy the $500-range Rodeo, test it fully, buy it, send it to Turnbull or similar for a fancy "paint job" .

From everything I've seen so far, there's only two wheelguns I'd buy brand new sight-unseen on order: a Freedom Arms (83 or 97 frame, not minis) or a USFA. Well OK, yes, a Korth , not that I'd buy one.

ANYthing else, I want to handle, fondle, do a checkout.

 

[mattx109]

I'm actually looking to replace an old NEF R92 Ultra with a Single Six as my general .22 plinker, and I like the ability to switch out to the .22 WMR as well. So being, I'll have to look at the Vaquero as well.

And speaking of USFA and Ruger, it looks like I can get a color case blued Ruger Vaquero for about the same price as a matte blue USFA Rodeo. Specifically I'm looking at .45 LC models with 5 1/2" barrels.

Any opinions of the two (that aren't too heated... )?