Flashpoint
Member
What advantages or disadvantages does one have over the other? I'm interested in hearing some opinions, but please, try to keep it civil, I know how these caliber theads can be.
Compare & Contrast .357 Sig/.40 S&W
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critter
Member
Not sure I can help much, but I have a Para Ordnance P-16 .40 caliber to which I have fitted an Ed Brown .357 Sig barrel, hence a 'switch barrel' gun.
The .357 shoots lighter bullets faster is all I know. I have a box of appx 140gr XTP HP's that show the velocity at over 1000 FPS AT 100 YDS from the .357! The .357 is VERY accurate, but so is the .40. I shoot mostly appx 125gr bullets from the .357 while the .40 shoots midrange weight bullets best it seems to me (165 gr or so).
I have no 'social experiences' nor do I have any hunting experience with either round. I do know that the .357 round will 'explode' water filled soda cans with fp ammo in a manner only available in JHP from other calibers.
I'm not sure there is much difference in the recoil-if there is, it seems that the .357 MAY recoil a LITTLE less but that may be more due to bullet weight than caliber. The .357 is NOISY-even compared to the .40. It has a sharp 'crack' to it which necessiates GOOD hearing protection.
I enjoy the 'switch barrel' deal and it can be done in Glocks, Para's, SIG's as well as many others. That might be the easiest way for you to give one a try. I think you will like to play with both/either and it is a very versatile setup.
Have fun!
The .357 shoots lighter bullets faster is all I know. I have a box of appx 140gr XTP HP's that show the velocity at over 1000 FPS AT 100 YDS from the .357! The .357 is VERY accurate, but so is the .40. I shoot mostly appx 125gr bullets from the .357 while the .40 shoots midrange weight bullets best it seems to me (165 gr or so).
I have no 'social experiences' nor do I have any hunting experience with either round. I do know that the .357 round will 'explode' water filled soda cans with fp ammo in a manner only available in JHP from other calibers.
I'm not sure there is much difference in the recoil-if there is, it seems that the .357 MAY recoil a LITTLE less but that may be more due to bullet weight than caliber. The .357 is NOISY-even compared to the .40. It has a sharp 'crack' to it which necessiates GOOD hearing protection.
I enjoy the 'switch barrel' deal and it can be done in Glocks, Para's, SIG's as well as many others. That might be the easiest way for you to give one a try. I think you will like to play with both/either and it is a very versatile setup.
Have fun!
Flashpoint
Member
Surely Critter is not the only one with experience with both rounds 
I'd like to hear form some people about what they think the best applications advantages the .40 and the .357 might have.
I'd like to hear form some people about what they think the best applications advantages the .40 and the .357 might have.
wally
Member
.40 S&W for when you need a smaller gun than a .45ACP. I've come to like the .40 S&W because of my Kahr PM40, but 45ACP is still #1 for me.
.357 SIG for when you want to shoot over-priced ammo that is a PITA to reload.
I've no intrest in .357 SIG. If you think there is some special mojo in a 125 gr .35" pill moving about 1300 fps go with .38 super. More choices in bullet weights and much easier to reload.
--wally.
.357 SIG for when you want to shoot over-priced ammo that is a PITA to reload.
I've no intrest in .357 SIG. If you think there is some special mojo in a 125 gr .35" pill moving about 1300 fps go with .38 super. More choices in bullet weights and much easier to reload.
--wally.
orangeninja
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To be honest the .357 Sig is the newest .38 Super. I have several friends who are issued the .357 Sig caliber and these are the reasons stated.
1.) The .357 has a better penetration through windshields, car doors etc. Which makes a difference for patrol officers.
2.) Some subscribe to the theory that this round will affect the human body exactly like the .357 Magnum does because thats what ballistic testing shows. (not starting an argument, that was a reason given.)
3.) Some less intelligent departments and municipalities do not like the mortality rate of a "big bore" caliber, which is what the .40 is, therefore the .357 Sig has a lower mortality rate....because it's not a "big bore"
4.) Some Departments feel that the .357 Sig is more managable for smaller statured officers to fire.
These are the "official" reasons I have been given. I personally think that a lot of it has to do with the Sig Sauer Demo Guys really talking this round up to the purchasers....usually how it goes anyway.
The Treasury Dept. has started to issue this round to all their law enforcement branches that I know of.
The air marshalls use them because they use frangible ammo, but the higher velocity bullet will penetrate deeper before breaking up...(hearsay)
The FBI and Dept. of Justice guys still swear by the .40.............it is after all the 10mm short.
The Homeland Security guys????who knows.
The military the 9mm of course.
Most local cops who have the option around these parts use the .40 or .45.
my .02
1.) The .357 has a better penetration through windshields, car doors etc. Which makes a difference for patrol officers.
2.) Some subscribe to the theory that this round will affect the human body exactly like the .357 Magnum does because thats what ballistic testing shows. (not starting an argument, that was a reason given.)
3.) Some less intelligent departments and municipalities do not like the mortality rate of a "big bore" caliber, which is what the .40 is, therefore the .357 Sig has a lower mortality rate....because it's not a "big bore"
4.) Some Departments feel that the .357 Sig is more managable for smaller statured officers to fire.
These are the "official" reasons I have been given. I personally think that a lot of it has to do with the Sig Sauer Demo Guys really talking this round up to the purchasers....usually how it goes anyway.
The Treasury Dept. has started to issue this round to all their law enforcement branches that I know of.
The air marshalls use them because they use frangible ammo, but the higher velocity bullet will penetrate deeper before breaking up...(hearsay)
The FBI and Dept. of Justice guys still swear by the .40.............it is after all the 10mm short.
The Homeland Security guys????who knows.
The military the 9mm of course.
Most local cops who have the option around these parts use the .40 or .45.
my .02
I've found it to have less recoil than .40, but more muzzle blast and noise. The .357 is also very flat-shooting and accurate. I've played with it at 50 yards and I was pretty impressed. The .357 SIG is bottlenecked, which may give it an advantage for reliability, but I have never evaluated this claim.
I do have to call BS on the price issue. 5532JWK has Winchester Ranger ammo in the For Sale forum. Same price for .45 and .357 SIG, and $2 over .40 and 9mm +P. Is that "overpriced"? I've also seen bullet weights of 100, 115, 125, and 150 gr.
I do have to call BS on the price issue. 5532JWK has Winchester Ranger ammo in the For Sale forum. Same price for .45 and .357 SIG, and $2 over .40 and 9mm +P. Is that "overpriced"? I've also seen bullet weights of 100, 115, 125, and 150 gr.
Flashpoint
Member
I was courious if there was any justification to buy a .357 barrel for my .40. It sounds like .357 would be a applicable round for law enforcement,but not so much for SD.
orangeninja
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I believe that the .40 is slightly superior than the .357 Sig in regards to just pure self defense if for no other reason than the adaptability of the .40 round. In my case, I carry 165 gr. in summertime and 180 in winter, due to heavier clothing. I understand that the 180 grain takes longer depth to expand fully and might "over penetrate" a skinny scumbag in a T shirt.
ny32182
Member
Both are fine rounds...
I bought my P226 as a .40 (it can switch to .357sig with nothing but a barrel change) but have never felt the need to acquire a .357 barrel for it.
My personal reasons:
1. .40 is a very flexible cartridge. Even if you don't reload, factory ammo is available in everything from ~90 grain or lighter frangible to 180+ grain FMJ.
2. It is cheaper and more available than .357sig
3. Similar power levels/recoil levels, same mag capacity, .40 has less intense report. I didn't believe the hype about how loud it was until I stood next to/fired one. .357sig is EASILY louder than any other autoloading service cartridge, IMO. Its the only autoloading handgun round I've ever been uncomfortable standing next to with only muffs on.
4. 155gr gold dots at 1200 or 1300 fps is a great load.
5. The "more reliable feeding" of .357sig is always mentioned, but I've yet to see anyone even attempt to quantify an advantage to back up the claim. In fact I've read reports of nose diving issues with .357sig that I've never seen mentioned with .40. And, my .40 has never malfunctioned anyway.
All this adds up to .40 advantages, at least for my purposes. Both rounds are more than adequate for their intended use.
I bought my P226 as a .40 (it can switch to .357sig with nothing but a barrel change) but have never felt the need to acquire a .357 barrel for it.
My personal reasons:
1. .40 is a very flexible cartridge. Even if you don't reload, factory ammo is available in everything from ~90 grain or lighter frangible to 180+ grain FMJ.
2. It is cheaper and more available than .357sig
3. Similar power levels/recoil levels, same mag capacity, .40 has less intense report. I didn't believe the hype about how loud it was until I stood next to/fired one. .357sig is EASILY louder than any other autoloading service cartridge, IMO. Its the only autoloading handgun round I've ever been uncomfortable standing next to with only muffs on.
4. 155gr gold dots at 1200 or 1300 fps is a great load.
5. The "more reliable feeding" of .357sig is always mentioned, but I've yet to see anyone even attempt to quantify an advantage to back up the claim. In fact I've read reports of nose diving issues with .357sig that I've never seen mentioned with .40. And, my .40 has never malfunctioned anyway.
All this adds up to .40 advantages, at least for my purposes. Both rounds are more than adequate for their intended use.
Grayrider
Member
I spent some time Friday running some 357 sig down range. I like 40 as well, but the 357 has some interesting differences. I suspect it feeds more reliably, but then my 9mm XD has yet to jam so it could simply be the design of the gun. The small bullet, big hole theory makes sense though. I was shooting clays with my XD357, XD9, and a 10mm 1911. The latter was running some weak commercial ammo. The 9mm and 10mm both tended to knock chunks out of the clays. Once and a while they would smash one into large pieces if hit just right. The 357 tended to blast the clays into tiny bits. Even peripheral hits tended to shatter the clays. I suspect a hotter 10 might have done that as well. The 357 seems to shoot flatter than the 40 from past experience. I need to get a 40 barrel in that XD so I can compare apples to oranges from the same gun.
I am favoring the 357 right now because I like a little extra penetration, range (I am in a rural area), and the reliability I have thus far observed. It is also a lot of power in a relatively small gun. Time will tell if it sticks with me. Interestingly it seems to have more recoil than a 38 Super, despite the similarity between the rounds. I suppose that is due to the higher pressure. I carry 38 Super frequently in a Pro Carry HD II, but the XD is starting to edge it out. Please don't tell Mr. Browning!
GR
I am favoring the 357 right now because I like a little extra penetration, range (I am in a rural area), and the reliability I have thus far observed. It is also a lot of power in a relatively small gun. Time will tell if it sticks with me. Interestingly it seems to have more recoil than a 38 Super, despite the similarity between the rounds. I suppose that is due to the higher pressure. I carry 38 Super frequently in a Pro Carry HD II, but the XD is starting to edge it out. Please don't tell Mr. Browning!
GR
wally
Member
Since Glocks and SIGs never jam so why do you need a bottlenecked round to enhance reliablity?
--wally.
--wally.
cratz2
Member
I admit that I don't embrace the concept of the 357 SIG... or at least I haven't so far. I think there are more reasons that the 357 Magnum has proven so effective on the streets than just because of the bullet design and the velocity and I don't personally buy into the concept that a 125 Gr bullet moving 100 to 200 fps faster than a similar 124 gr bullet will have dramatically better terminal effect.
Basically you have a propriatary cartridge that is roughly equal to the hottest 9mm +P+ loads but in a form factor that limits the number of rounds. If shooting directly into soft tissue, I'd rather have a larger bullet so would prefer the 40 to 357 SIG for civilian carry. Shooting into cars, the 357 SIG has seemingly shown itself to be about ideal though heavier factory loaded bullets would be nice. Just walking into an average gun shop, there is a much larger variety of 40S&W bullet weights than 357 SIG bullet weights.
So in total, I'd rather have 18 rounds of +P+ 9mm Rangers than 15 rounds of 357 SIGs and I'd rather have 15 rounds of 40s than 15 rounds of 357 SIG... for my purposes. But if you're wanting to play with something else, a barrel swap might be kinda cool... be sure to try some non reduced flash loads at night.
Basically you have a propriatary cartridge that is roughly equal to the hottest 9mm +P+ loads but in a form factor that limits the number of rounds. If shooting directly into soft tissue, I'd rather have a larger bullet so would prefer the 40 to 357 SIG for civilian carry. Shooting into cars, the 357 SIG has seemingly shown itself to be about ideal though heavier factory loaded bullets would be nice. Just walking into an average gun shop, there is a much larger variety of 40S&W bullet weights than 357 SIG bullet weights.
So in total, I'd rather have 18 rounds of +P+ 9mm Rangers than 15 rounds of 357 SIGs and I'd rather have 15 rounds of 40s than 15 rounds of 357 SIG... for my purposes. But if you're wanting to play with something else, a barrel swap might be kinda cool... be sure to try some non reduced flash loads at night.
kidcoltoutlaw
Member
the 40 when im lazy
because it's easy to reload for.the 357 SIG for long range and busting water jugs.i love them both anything i have a 357 barrel for i also have a 40 barrel for .the brass is real cheap for the 40.in the 40 i can load lite at 180 for 960 fps or heavy at 1200 plus with a 180 and a 5 inch barsto,thanks,keith
because it's easy to reload for.the 357 SIG for long range and busting water jugs.i love them both anything i have a 357 barrel for i also have a 40 barrel for .the brass is real cheap for the 40.in the 40 i can load lite at 180 for 960 fps or heavy at 1200 plus with a 180 and a 5 inch barsto,thanks,keith
ny32182
Member
1200+ with a 180 grain?? I thought that was decidedly 10mm territory.
kidcoltoutlaw
Member
1200 plus with a 180
that was from a 5 inch bar-sto drop in for the 40 S&W in a p229.now if only i could get the barsto 5.5 inch barrels in 40 and 357 SIG i was using a rainier the xtp/hp are faster but i tore a calf muscel, pushing my atv not shooting the hot loads and have not had a chance to shoot them.it is with a max but not an over load of longshot,thanks,keith
that was from a 5 inch bar-sto drop in for the 40 S&W in a p229.now if only i could get the barsto 5.5 inch barrels in 40 and 357 SIG i was using a rainier the xtp/hp are faster but i tore a calf muscel, pushing my atv not shooting the hot loads and have not had a chance to shoot them.it is with a max but not an over load of longshot,thanks,keith
cratz2
Member
Funny, but it seems to me that generally the 357 SIG has a bit more flip than the 40S&W - both Georgia Arms Gold Dots in the similar Glock 23 and the 32. Recoil seems about the same, but the 40 is maybe more 'pushy' while the 357 is a bit more 'flippy'. Of course, this can come down to individual manafacturer loads. I wouldn't let recoil properties sway me one way or the other but the SIG seems louder and with more muzzle flash than I generally have seen from 40s.
Still, I think they are similar (with the best possible loads) for general SD but for shooting into soft tissue, I'd rather have the larger diameter bullet... Shooting through metal is a completely different story and since I'm not expecting to shoot through car doors or glass...
Still, I think they are similar (with the best possible loads) for general SD but for shooting into soft tissue, I'd rather have the larger diameter bullet... Shooting through metal is a completely different story and since I'm not expecting to shoot through car doors or glass...
Nightcrawler
Member
Seems every so often they make another 9mm round that's higher velocity than 9x19mm and tout it like it's some new great thing. .38 Super was the original, of course, but you also have had 9x23mm, 9x25mm, 9mm Largo, and now .357 Sig. Most of them fade into obscurity; we'll see what happens to .357 Sig, I guess.
.357 Sig duplicates the ballistics of the 125 grain .357 Magnum loads. (about 1400 feet per second) These loads, in a Magnum, are hardly the upper limit of what .357 is capable of, but are popular for whatever reason.
In that respect, .357 Sig offers "magnum power", but .357 Magnum stomps it completely when you use something besides the mid-level 125 grain loads. .357 Magnum 125 grains can be loaded to do 1600 feet per second out of a 4" barrel.
Other than looking at ballistics numbers, though, I've no experience with it. I consider it a six in one, half dozen in the other, when compared to .40, though. It seems they basically do the same thing in different ways.
.357 Sig duplicates the ballistics of the 125 grain .357 Magnum loads. (about 1400 feet per second) These loads, in a Magnum, are hardly the upper limit of what .357 is capable of, but are popular for whatever reason.
In that respect, .357 Sig offers "magnum power", but .357 Magnum stomps it completely when you use something besides the mid-level 125 grain loads. .357 Magnum 125 grains can be loaded to do 1600 feet per second out of a 4" barrel.
Other than looking at ballistics numbers, though, I've no experience with it. I consider it a six in one, half dozen in the other, when compared to .40, though. It seems they basically do the same thing in different ways.
Flashpoint
Member
Someone over on GT asked this same question and it resulted in some interesting post, so I thought I might do a thread cross-over.
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2618785#post2618785
http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2618785#post2618785
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