Concerns about reloading for a .40 Glock

[0to60]

I'm starting to reload .40 for a Glock 22 and some of the things I'm reading on the internet are concerning me. First off, the kabooms. True, kabooms can happen with any gun but there are a lot of stories about Glock .40's kabooming in particular. So here are my questions:

Why is this happening to .40s? 9mm operates at roughly the same pressure as .40, so why is this happening more with .40s?

Does "glock bulge" happen in other calibers as well as the .40?

Are these issues mainly caused by Glock's decision to go with an unsupported barrel? Would simply swapping in an aftermarket, fully supported barrel prevent this from happening?

IS this even happening, or is it an internet rumor gone wild?

 

[1KPerDay]

Try a search; there have been approximately 289,392,111 threads on this subject. However...

My opinion:
1. examine your brass and make sure your sizing die is properly sizing "glocked" brass. Or recycle it. I run mixed range pickup and haven't had a lick of trouble. My Lee dies work great. But I haven't really found any truly "bulged" brass yet.

2. use FMJ or plated bullets unless you use an aftermarket barrel with conventional rifling. I realize you can run lead through an OEM glock barrel with careful observation and regular cleaning, but I'm not a regular cleaning kinda guy. I got a storm lake barrel and it's great.

3. Don't use Titegroup. I base this purely on the hundreds of threads on Titegroup+.40 Glocks=Kaboom.

4. Don't load close to MAX loads unless you're using NEW brass, and even then be careful. I load starting loads to midrange loads and get great accuracy and reliability. I don't need anything else. If I want a hot defense load or something, I buy quality factory ammo.

What generation is your G22? They have increased the chamber support on Glock .40s over the years.

 

[rbernie]

Gen 1/2 Glock 40S&W pistol barrels had inadequate chamber support, and could kaBOOM under the right set of circumstances (weak recoil spring, heavy striker spring, long headspace, etc.). Gen3/4 Glocks have barrels with adequate support, and I would not have any concerns with them.

 

[rcmodel]

+1
Also, 1st. & 2nd. gen Glocks like my Model 23, by design, could fire out of battery by nearly 3/16" inch.

As the chamber got dirty, it could hold the slide open further, and that exposed more thin case wall to the unsupported feed ramp cut in the chamber.

Todays Glock .40's have tighter chambers, more case support, and no longer can fire out of battery like the early ones.

rc

 

[rg1]

Had the same concerns when loading for my 1st G23 3rd generation. Found no issues and no differences than loading for my Glock 19 9MM's. Like mentioned, use powders that prevent the possibility of a double charge and more than half fills the case, don't use lead bullets, and don't try to make a 10MM out of a 40SW. I use the removed barrel as a case gauge to check all loaded rounds. Being new to the .40 I have tested 5 powders and like Winchester Super Field WSF and Power Pistol best followed by Unique and I've only loaded 155 and mainly 165 grain bullets.

 

[GLOOB]

Why is this happening to .40s? 9mm operates at roughly the same pressure as .40, so why is this happening more with .40s?

The 45 Colt operates at half the pressure of 9mm. If you tried to shoot it out of an unmodified 9mm frame (If somehow the barrel would fit) you'd blow it up. The barrel would unlock too soon, and the case would rupture.

Pressure is pounds per square inch. When you increase the diameter of the chamber/bore, you have more square inches. 35kPSI in a 40SW chamber is roughly 24% more force than 35kPSI in a 9mm chamber. In comparison, 9mm+P at 37.5kSI is only 7% more force than standard 9mm.

The Glock 22 is operating at reduced margin on the high end, compared to a Glock 17. This is because it's identical in mass and recoil spring, but it's shooting a much higher momentum cartridge. If you overloaded your Glock 17 and your Glock 22 in increments, the Glock 22 would fail, first.

 

[rajbcpa]

OK - great advice.

Did anyone mention the .40 bulged cases? If you are loading .40 you need to be aware of these. When ammo is shot from an unsupported chamber it bulges and a standard re-sizing die will not remove the bulge. It takes a special Lee or Lyman "push through die"

Bulged cases will not chamber so be prepared to buy and use a push through die.

 

[CatPuke]

One more thing to consider - most of the reports of kabooms I've seen involved 180 grain projectiles. If you like the lighter ones, they're also usually cheaper.. if the nose profile is the same for two projectiles, the lighter one will be shorter - giving you just a skitch more case volume at the same overall length. More open case volume = reduced risk of pressure spikes..

 

[Woolecox]

I'm starting to reload .40 for a Glock 22 and some of the things I'm reading on the internet are concerning me. First off, the kabooms. True, kabooms can happen with any gun but there are a lot of stories about Glock .40's kabooming in particular. So here are my questions:

Why is this happening to .40s? 9mm operates at roughly the same pressure as .40, so why is this happening more with .40s?

Does "glock bulge" happen in other calibers as well as the .40?

Are these issues mainly caused by Glock's decision to go with an unsupported barrel? Would simply swapping in an aftermarket, fully supported barrel prevent this from happening?

IS this even happening, or is it an internet rumor gone wild?

I have replaced my G22 barrel with a Bar-Sto barrel. It is fully supported but now there can be absolutely no bulge or it will not function. I now run all my 40 cases through a Redding GRx push through die (Bulge Buster) and all through a max case gage when complete.

Just this week I had 26 out of 300 rounds that had to be culled due to excessive bulge. This was all range brass that I have collected over several years. This was before I got the GRx die. Some of these are so bad that I will pull them and discard the cases. Take a look. 40S&W has been the most troublesome caliber for me to load but with some precautions it can be done well/safely.

I agree with the others on the improvements on the Gen 3/4.

Have fun, be safe,
Wooly

 

[jack44]

I still don't know why people still like these guns.

 

[Woolecox]

I still don't know why people still like these guns.

Well, It has the punch of a 45 ACP in a smaller lighter round, higher capacity magazines, smaller more concealable pistols, just about every law enforcement agency on the planet uses them so components and ammunition are readily available. If you scrounge brass from public ranges, most of it will be 40S&W. If you are, or have ever been a LEO, you are proficient with one in some form or another. Accurate and deadly, etc.

I still have my old trusty duty H&K Compact, a G22, and a Sig P229. I don't think they are fun to shoot but great carry and home defense weapons. Everything was fine until Glock had to produce the screwed up unsupported barrels.

JMHO,
Wooly

 

[greenlion]

I think those rumors probably stem from SOME factual events, but not as many as it seems. The 40 is a short round and high pressure like the 9mm.The initial guns were built around the 9mm, not the 40S&W. I suspect the Kabooms stem from powder double charges, early barrels that did not fully support the case, and bullets seated too deep. Pressure can raise DRAMATICALLY in those conditions.

Use a newer Glock barrel
Watch out for double charges
Check bullet seating depth often
Don't load to nuclear velocities
...Basically everything we SHOULD have been checking for when we were loading 9mm. It is just more forgiving.

I've been loading for .40S&W for years and have never had a single problem. You can load some amazingly gently and accurate target loads. You can develop some very controllable defensive rounds using the older FBI velocities for the 180 and 165 grain bullets. You can load some very high velocity rounds with the 135 grain bullets. And you can load some powerful rounds that get rather snappy and uncomfortable for some shooters if you load to the highest published velocities with jacketed hollowpoints. Its a very good caliber for target shooting, defense, and a versatile choice for many shooting games.

 

[GLOOB]

The initial guns were built around the 9mm

Yup. The 40SW is like +P+ in the older guns. It's a level of abuse that the guns were not necessarily designed for. But there are plenty of firearms that were designed specifically for 40SW.

I have loaded my FNX hot. As in lazily using the same powder charge for a different brand bullet, when I was already above manufacturer recs. In my Glock 27, these reloads had absolutely horrendous, painful recoil (I'm not sure why I shot more than one, in hindsight!), terrible accuracy, and every once or twice a mag, the gun doublefed with an empty case still in the chamber. Pressure was too high for the extractor to pull the case out. I had noticed that my FNX barrel stays locked up about 3 times as long (distance of slide travel) as my G27, so I figured it might handle them better. I tried some, prepared for the worst. They shot so nice, I shot all 50+ of them, rather than pulling the bullets. They shot accurately, the recoil was mild (as per usual with this gun with everythign I've fed it), and the gun functioned perfectly. The difference was night and day. To the Glock, these reloads were poison. To the FNX, they seemed completely average.

 

[gamestalker]

I too have been loading for the .40 cal, and also a number of different firearms which includes Glocks, and have yet to experience any problems. To add to that, I load upper end jacketed stuff using powders such as Longshot and HS6. Honestly, most of my loads run at or very near maximum.

But I also don't use questionable or severely bulged brass. I also don't use a bulge buster die, because I don't use brass that may have a weak spot which could let go when being subjected to upper end pressures.

To recap, I don't personally think that loading for a Glock is any different than loading for any other firearm. Start low and work up, watch for indications of excessive pressures by use of a chrony in conjunction with published data. And when shortening the OAL, re-work the charge to avoid significant pressure spikes. And don't use suspect brass, that's just asking for trouble. Brass that has been severely bulged is going to weaker in that region even if the bulge has been removed.

GS

GS

 

[gahunter12]

I agree with Gamestalker. I load for a Glock35,22, and 23. They are all Gen3s, and haven't had a single problem in 60,000+ rounds. I pick up range brass by the bucket full. That said I clean all my brass, and inspect every single case for cracks, Glock Smilely faces, and weak case walls. I also do not use a bulge buster since I use a stock barrel. My Dillon Dies do a great job for me.

 

[Woolecox]

I agree with Gamestalker. I load for a Glock35,22, and 23. They are all Gen3s, and haven't had a single problem in 60,000+ rounds. I pick up range brass by the bucket full. That said I clean all my brass, and inspect every single case for cracks, Glock Smilely faces, and weak case walls. I also do not use a bulge buster since I use a stock barrel. My Dillon Dies do a great job for me.

Hunter,

Mine don't. Look at my pictures a few post up. Those rounds were loaded with Dillon dies in my RL550B. These were 26 bulged culls out of 300 that won't chamber. Now I think the Lee dies do size a lot further down. But I was still getting some un-shootable loads with them too. Not as many.

I did however, dig out the original Glock barrel from my Gen 3 G22 and all the bulged cases chambered in it just fine. But if they won't fit in a L. E. Wilson "max case gage", they wont fit into my aftermarket Bar-Sto barrel. So I think those shooting factory Glock barrels are going to do just fine.

 

[Clark]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

In my old Glock 22 40sw I was getting case bulges with 25% more powder than published maximum.
I TIG welded up the feed ramp and recut the feed ramp and chamber.
Now I can put in more than 100% extra powder and no case bulge. The recoil does bodily harm to the shooter, but no case bulge.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506225&highlight=TIG+welded

What does it all mean?
1) Glocks are very strong.
2) The 40 SW cartridge has huge safety margins
3) Some Glock barrels have poor case support and the brass can fail in overload where the brass is thin.
4) Some Glock barrels have wide chambers that stretches the brass.
5) Some brass can fail with normal loads after being shot again and again in wide chambers.

 

[glc24]

Did anyone mention the .40 bulged cases? If you are loading .40 you need to be aware of these. When ammo is shot from an unsupported chamber it bulges and a standard re-sizing die will not remove the bulge. It takes a special Lee or Lyman "push through die"

Bulged cases will not chamber so be prepared to buy and use a push through die.

I have a Dillon RL550B. I reload .40 S&W for my Glock Gen 4 G23. I do NOT need any special die to resize a "glocked" case. So far, I have done at least a 1,000 once fired other than my own. The Dillon die is just fine.

Greg

 

[Woolecox]

Glock Shot Underwater

What more can you say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=502KryEguA0

 

[rcmodel]

I do NOT need any special die to resize a "glocked" case.

Same here.

Mine is a 2nd. Gen I bought new in 1995.

I have loaded for it since then with standard RCBS reloading dies.

rc

 

[Rodfac]

I've had a Gen 3 G23 for a year or so, and have loaded over 1000 rounds for it, using either Dillon or Lee standard dies. No need to iron out the bulge so far. Rod

 

[mxjunky78]

I've loaded for my Glock 22 for 2yrs now and must say that all the buzz comes from older generation guns or sloppy reloading techniques. I load primarily lead bullets and shoot them from my factory barrel with outstanding results and no leading. Your results may vary but I'd be willing to bet a paycheck that if proper safety precautions are taken, you and your Glock 22 will be happy, happy happy!

 

[gahunter12]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gahunter12
I agree with Gamestalker. I load for a Glock35,22, and 23. They are all Gen3s, and haven't had a single problem in 60,000+ rounds. I pick up range brass by the bucket full. That said I clean all my brass, and inspect every single case for cracks, Glock Smilely faces, and weak case walls. I also do not use a bulge buster since I use a stock barrel. My Dillon Dies do a great job for me.
Hunter,

Mine don't. Look at my pictures a few post up. Those rounds were loaded with Dillon dies in my RL550B. These were 26 bulged culls out of 300 that won't chamber. Now I think the Lee dies do size a lot further down. But I was still getting some un-shootable loads with them too. Not as many.

I did however, dig out the original Glock barrel from my Gen 3 G22 and all the bulged cases chambered in it just fine. But if they won't fit in a L. E. Wilson "max case gage", they wont fit into my aftermarket Bar-Sto barrel. So I think those shooting factory Glock barrels are going to do just fine.

Correct. Like I said... I have factory barrels in all of my Glocks. Even in my XDm my cases chamber well. I do not use a case gage, but instead use my barrels for the Drop Test. It's known that Bar-Sto barrels, Lone Wolf Barrels have extremly tight chambers. There for using a bulge buster, and case gage is a must.

 

[Kachok]

I load for alot of firearms including Sigs, XDs, and a couple 44 Mags, but I absolutely WILL NOT load anything for a Glock under any circumstances, hence I will not own one.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

Well i load for ALOT of firearms myself. Handguns from the 32 special to the 500 linebaugh and about everything inbetween and have been loading for glocks for at least 15 years and would sure like to know why you refuse to load for a glock. My guess is your reading to much internet bs about them. What ive found is if i load up to max pressures in the 9s 40s and 10s the do bulge cases. Back off a grain or two of powder and the bulge goes away. Bottom line though is the bulge hurts nothing. I routinely run all my handgun brass through a bulge buster type of a die anyway just because its a small price to pay to insure absolute reliablility and I do it not only for glocks but for any semi auto handgun. The only exception is 45 acp brass used exclusively in my comp guns. the question was asked earlier why would anyone buy one of these things. Well my answer is that in its price range its hands down the most reliable handgun made. It runs as well as guns that cost near twice as much. There simple to work on, cheap to customize and plenty accurate for what there made for. Why wouldnt you buy one would be my question.