Congresswoman Giffords Shooting: Pro RKBA responses to questions/concerns/accusations

[nyresq]

It seems that Giffords was the intended target in an assasination attempt. The FBI has made a statement saying they recovered evidence from the shooters home showing he planned to kill her.

As to what we can do to defend the RKBA against the antis right now is stand on the argument showing the shooter was deemed mentally unstable by several different institutions and as such there are laws already in place that should have prevented him from getting a firearm. But the system failed and no notifications were made to the proper authorityand as such this mental case side stepped the law. If anyone of his teachers or the college had notified the police and reported him, he probably would have been denied buying the pistol.

Now we know realisticly he could have obtained one illegaly just as fast if not faster from the street, but the anti's always seem to gloss over that fact...

 

[DevLcL]

Statements like this make us appear shallow thoughtless. Emotionally disturbed people come from good families all the time. Things like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are due to nature rather than nurture.

Your absolutely right. What I really meant is that the parents didn't take the proper action. I have a family member that is schizophrenic and there is nothing that an anybody in the family could have done differently to prevent it. However, when the family turned their back on him and let him do whatever he wanted he committed assault and is now serving time in San Quentin. The mental illness is not the fault of the family but the actions a mentally ill person takes are the responsibility of the family.

 

[bobalou]

Yea, but there's always a trigger, no pun, and I think now would be a time to leave the politics of Mrs Giffords out of this, respectfully. It's called "THE HIGH ROAD".

 

[DevLcL]

Yea, but there's always a trigger, no pun, and I think now would be a time to leave the politics of Mrs Giffords out of this, respectfully. It's called "THE HIGH ROAD".

I also agree with the second part of this statement. The politics of Mrs. Giffords really shouldn't make any difference to us one way or another.

 

[Kim]

There of coarse is not way to always prevent a lone nut from kiling people. What the media is missing(not surprised) is why it is so hard. We have (lead by the ACLU back in the 1980's) made it very hard to place someone long or short term in a mental instutution. They have all kind of rights now. Maybe that is good and all we can do. But maybe we have gone too far in that direction. I remember the case the ACLU used. Some lady living on the street in a cardboard box. She supplied housing for herself, used the bathroom on the sidewalk and feed herself from dumpsters. The Courts said she was no danger to herself or others. If we allow unstable people free range and as a physician I know we do by law these things will happen and the stupid media and politicians will always look for their pet political agenda to push. Watch out cause they are going to take about and try some gun control and their is one Democrat talking about resticting speech.

 

[robhof]

robhof

The craziest part of the whole event is ; how many people died in AZ yesterday because of drunk drivers, yet one crazy with a gun affects all legal gun owners.

 

[Kim]

As a personal note there was a guy in the town I grew up in of about a few hundred. All small towns have a character like this. He mumbled to himself, was ill kept was in and out of the state mental hospital. They never kept him long. Everyone knew him. I saw and talked to him many times. One time the poor policeman (who was married to a family member of mine) got called by his mother because of his behavior. He went into the home and sat down in a chair to talk to the guy. The guy cut him in half with a shot gun. He was a schizophrenic. Do I blame the shot gun. No I blame him and the system we have of not keeping these people locked up and in some type of institutional living.

 

[bobalou]

How can you blame a schizophrenic? They are sick, they live in hell in there minds. My brother was schizophrenic and was ridiculed his entire life. We would institutionalize him and then my mom would get him out, because that was inhumane too. Not all schizophrenics are violent. I feel bad for both sides. I'm out of this. Going to shoot my gun. By ya'll.

 

[seldomseensmith]

Breathe deep

Don't worry. We Americans have such short term memory that this will be a distant memory by next month. Major gun control legislation has not been on the front burner for quite some time now, in addition to this anti-gun groups have been dealt spectacular legal defeats in the last several years. Any congressperson using this as an attempt to pass gun control legislation will surely be defeated.

 

[bobalou]

Let me quickly clarify, I feel bad for schizophrenics, but I don't know what the shooter's ailment was. Not a doctor. Some people are just evil. I don't know is all I know. By again.

 

[2WheelsGood]

Interesting article about a guy legally carrying who was almost close enough to have done something: READ

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

Am I the only one waiting for some lib in Congress or on the old, stubborn MSM to lament the fact that this didn't happen when Democrats still had a majority in the House?

Just wondering...

Woody

 

[Derek Zeanah]

The Wall Street Journal coverage of this seemed reasonable. The New York Times had a couple of editorials talking about how if a "normal" gun had been used the collateral damage would have been lower, suggesting that AZ implement better controls over firearms, quoting someone from Brady asserting that Glocks have no valid self defense use, and the like.

There do not seem to be any new arguments yet.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Normal for me is a Glock with just as many in the Mag as CA allows...

My 17L came with the hi cap mags...1988 time frame...I can have them and do... The 9mm with 18 or so rounds is effective...

It is not the Glock that was at fault, just a tool of sorts...

Defective is the shooter some will assert, but he was bent on killing and did it...I hope he does not take his life and will tell his story, get a good author in there like Truman Capote, "In cold blood" comes to mind...

Try to find out what makes this person tick so help can be there for others...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Cold_Blood

Security fell short on this day and event IMHO...

AZ has a lot of full time gun carring people so where were they

Not their job, to be honest...

Regards

 

[KBintheSLC]

The New York Times had a couple of editorials talking about how if a "normal" gun had been used the collateral damage would have been lower

Yeah... lord knows there's nothing "normal" about Glocks. They may very well be some of the most common guns on earth, but "normal" they are not. "groan"

 

[KodiakBeer]

The New York Times had a couple of editorials talking about how if a "normal" gun had been used the collateral damage would have been lower

Yeah, cuz when you empty the "clip" you have to buy a new gun.

 

[Derek Zeanah]

I wasn't looking for criticism of the editorial stance -- anyone here can explain the problems with the statements as presented.

I was trying to keep folks aware of the way the public debate was evolving.

 

[Str8Shooter]

Just saw this on the Denver Post website:

Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., said he would introduce the measure to re-establish a prohibition that lapsed in 2004 on clips that feed more than 10 rounds at a time.

 

[Walkalong]

Let us keep in mind the tens if not hundreds or thousands of people who get shot, or stabbed, or clubbed, or strangled in this country daily. Why all the hoopla over one particular person? Is it because that person is a congresswoman? What about the garbage collector, or the shop keeper, or the housewife that gets shot, stabbed, clubbed, or strangled?

Cold but true. Folks are stabbed, strangled, beat on the head with bricks, pushed off buildings, etc, etc, and barely get a blurb in the paper.

Many politicians are scared of an armed society in general so this scares them to their marrow. The only politicians scared of legally armed citizens are the ones who would run your lives if you let them. Those who just want to serve the people and their country have no problem with citizens owning guns. Those are who we should support, on both sides of the isle.

It's only natural for celebrities, politicians, and other high profile folks to get press time, and it's only natural for the gun ban folks at all levels to scream for gun control when a high profile shooting occurs.

We need to be ready to stand firm and level headed when they do. Insane people will always find a way to kill. Gun control won't stop them.

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

Seldomseensmith: Don't worry. We Americans have such short term memory that this will be a distant memory by next month. Major gun control legislation has not been on the front burner for quite some time now, in addition to this anti-gun groups have been dealt spectacular legal defeats in the last several years. Any congressperson using this as an attempt to pass gun control legislation will surely be defeated.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/10/arizona-rampage-reignites-gun-control-debate-dc/

Arizona Rampage Reignites Gun Control Debate in D.C.

By Shannon Bream

Published January 10, 2011

| FoxNews.com


On Monday, Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., announced that he is working with Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., on legislation that would ban the manufacture and sale of high-capacity ammunition clips like the one allegedly used by Tucson shooting suspect Jared Loughner.

Not a shock this was going to happen. The Anti's didn't wait a second before they attempted to use this tragedy to support their ends.

.

 

[GambJoe]

It's hard to convince some people that owning any firearm is a right but try convincing them that a 30rnd magazine should be attached to it is a greater problem.

I keep hearing all the same old arguements both pro and con for guns. People always site the founders like they agreed on everything. The anti's insist there is no other reason for gun except to kill in some illegal or immoral way. Never to keep from getting yourself killed in some illegal or immoral way.

I'm begining to believe some pro and some anti's are unable to compromise or understand each other. My opinion, I can't convince a person that it's not their constitutional right to have double ma deuse mounted to his pick up. Nor am I able to convince some that I have the right to defend me and my own within both legal and moral reason.

Maybe we should get on with ammending state constitutions to gauratee the right of self defence. I don't see any middle ground here.

One thing for sure the war against the weak will continue in the country. The mentally ill will suffer for this. Look at all the chest thumping - nut, freak, pycho, paranoid schizophrenic their calling him while there are so many millions mentally ill suffer daily not just from their illness but how society treats them.

Another thing; getting in each other face everytime there's a disagreement is not the way things were done when I was young. At least you didn't unless you wanted to get in a fight. I'm to old to fight.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

As to what we can do to defend the RKBA against the antis right now is stand on the argument showing the shooter was deemed mentally unstable by several different institutions and as such there are laws already in place that should have prevented him from getting a firearm. But the system failed and no notifications were made to the proper authority and as such this mental case side stepped the law. If anyone of his teachers or the college had notified the police and reported him, he probably would have been denied buying the pistol.

Now we know realisticly he could have obtained one illegaly just as fast if not faster from the street, but the anti's always seem to gloss over that fact...

+1. Several steps where a better awareness of mental health could have flagged this man as troubled and gotten him the help he needed.

If he had been found "mentally defective" (as the ATF puts it) it would have stopped all this before even one shot was fired. To me, the key to this is that if he had received help, not only would the victims be alive, but the perpetrator would be on is way to a happier life as well. Everyone wins. Plus, if mental health care can be improved, it benefits all troubled people, not just those with homicidal tendencies.

I agree that he could have gotten the gun illegally if denied purchase, but then this would be a discussion about illegally obtained guns and lack of funding for Police due to the economic downturn.

 

[bobalou]

Counter stratagies

There is a defense to every offense, even in the gun debate. Stand together, and counter intellectually. Militias and talk of anarchy only feed the oppositions argument. Police and government are scared of this. Play smart. This forum goes a long way just by it's title, "THE HIGH ROAD". Keep the high road and use the power of your vote. This is a Democracy. I wouldn't live anywhere else.

 

[MikePGS]

Here's a quote from MSNBC that I found to be pretty curious
"Court documents indicated Loughner had bought the weapon legally from the Sportsman’s Warehouse in Tucson. The state's laws allow the carrying of concealed weapons."
Huh? If that isn't a case of someone trying to casually link a state having concealed carry law with gun violence, I don't know what is. As far as I know the shooter didn't have a concealed carry permit, so why mention this at all? It's almost as if he was... I know this is shocking... intent on breaking the law.

 

[2WheelsGood]

As far as I know the shooter didn't have a concealed carry permit

You don't need a permit in Arizona.