Sam Cade
Member
Sometimes there can be a negative correlation between age and wisdom.
Convincing my Mom that it's okay for me to OC
- Thread starter Skribs
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Sometimes there can be a negative correlation between age and wisdom.
PreMod70
Member
Occasionally yes, but seldom is youth blessed
FIVETWOSEVEN
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How about read the thread and then you'll get your answer. Posting like that keeps threads going in circles and circles.
I conceal carry, but if I were concerned about a road-rage encounter that I could not avoid, then I could certainly make the decision to reveal my holstered firearm or unholster it and get the same desired effect.
However, I wouldn't feel the need to brandish and announce to everyone at Krogers that I am carrying a 9mm while shopping for sales on sandwich meat.
With concealed carry, you have the option to unconceal at any time when prudent, but with open that option is removed.
NavyLCDR
member
Bobson said:
I'll help to push the cart around the circle yet one more time, for the benefit of those that couldn't see it the first time around:
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw
I wonder if the scout would have come in and seen Matt Brannan sitting there with no gun visible and said to himself, "Gee, we better move on to another Wafflehouse because that guy back there just might have a concealed pistol."
PreMod70
Member
Posted to NavyLCDR:
Your logic suffers; if the badguys see a weapon and retreat to victimise another defenseless soul when CC would have the badguys facing armed resistance you have helped them hurt someone else. The idea of CC is that if enough people carry the bad guys don't know who's lethal and who's not thus protecting those without weapons. The only way OC works is when all are doing the same and who want's to live in Dodge City, not I.
Your logic suffers; if the badguys see a weapon and retreat to victimise another defenseless soul when CC would have the badguys facing armed resistance you have helped them hurt someone else. The idea of CC is that if enough people carry the bad guys don't know who's lethal and who's not thus protecting those without weapons. The only way OC works is when all are doing the same and who want's to live in Dodge City, not I.
NavyLCDR
member
PreMod70 said:
I am glad that you feel that your concealed carry helps keep the world safer from criminals. Thank you for your service.
I don't carry to protect the world from criminals. I carry a gun to protect myself and my family from criminals. And the best way to protect myself and my family from criminals is to deter the attack from ever happening. That way I spare myself and my family the trauma of the attack itself, the self defense shooting, possibly witnessing the killing of human being, and possibly a court criminal and civil court process which could very easily bankrupt myself and my family.
It's not my fault if the criminal passes by me or my family because they see my gun and attack the 80 year old woman who comes in after I leave. I am not committing the criminal act, put the blame on the criminal, where it belongs. If I SEE the criminal attack the 80 year old woman, I absolutely will intervene, using my gun if needed.
Once again, research has shown that the KNOWN ability of the potential victim to kill the criminal will deter MORE criminals than the thought that a potential target MIGHT be armed. So, I will place my bet on the odds that are more in my favor. I'm sorry if placing my bet that way might increase the chances that the criminal will attack the next person coming along. Hopefully they will be carrying a concealed firearm and can save the world from that one particular criminal.
PreMod, I remember reading a memoir written by a navy SEAL, who was talking about his time in military school. Everyone carried a weapon, and there were 0 homicides (few suicides, but 0 homicides).
Your logic suffers, too. Bad guy walks into 7-11, where I am CCing. He pulls a knife on the owner. I draw my gun and tell him to stop, store owner calls 911. Criminal retreats, so I have no reason to shoot him. He walks down to another convenience store and holds it up instead. The difference is he just spent longer in 7-11.
Your logic suffers, too. Bad guy walks into 7-11, where I am CCing. He pulls a knife on the owner. I draw my gun and tell him to stop, store owner calls 911. Criminal retreats, so I have no reason to shoot him. He walks down to another convenience store and holds it up instead. The difference is he just spent longer in 7-11.
Now, for the rest of the story:
I knew Danny Morris (the clerk who shot the robber) back when this happened in WA back in the '80's, I shot with him at ISPC matches.
What's not in the story is that the robber was a developmentally challenged 20-something year old. He had just moved out of his parents house (IRC) and was just starting to learn to live on his own. He had no known prior criminal record.
His parents have no idea why he tried to "rob" the store, since he had never done anything like that before.
Bottom line: It was a terrible tragedy, especially for the parents.
P.S. Danny used his IPSC match gun in the shooting: a Colt Delta Elite in 10MM. After the shooting, the coroner stated that his three shots were all "A" hits.
The Renton Police Chief gave Danny a medal for saving the cops life and Danny's Colt was returned to him.
I haven't seen or thought of Danny in years, I'm sure he's passed by now.
Sam Cade
Member
He isn't asking for permission, he is asking for rhetorical approaches and advice to keep his mother from worrying about him.
Post #1.
Skribs,
As others have said, my input is free, so treat it accordingly: the OC vs CC debate has been going on for a very long time, and I don't really want to get involved in that argument. There are some pretty good points for each side - the element of surprise, acting as a deterent, easy access, blending in - and those are all things that I think should be taken into account.
Your mother's opinion of it is not a valid point. No disrespect intended, but its your life, and your decision, not hers.
If you decide to OC, great. If not, thats cool too. Just make sure you're doing it for the right reasons.
Sorry if that sounds too cheesy or preachy.
Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
As others have said, my input is free, so treat it accordingly: the OC vs CC debate has been going on for a very long time, and I don't really want to get involved in that argument. There are some pretty good points for each side - the element of surprise, acting as a deterent, easy access, blending in - and those are all things that I think should be taken into account.
Your mother's opinion of it is not a valid point. No disrespect intended, but its your life, and your decision, not hers.
If you decide to OC, great. If not, thats cool too. Just make sure you're doing it for the right reasons.
Sorry if that sounds too cheesy or preachy.
Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
NavyLCDR
member
kayak-man said:
Everything in between there is a most excellent post. Very nicely said, I agree with it 110%!
Kayakman, I just realized something. My Mom is part of the larger CC crowd, and it's just something we're going to disagree on.
Like I said, though. My Mom's opinion isn't going to affect whether or not I OC. My Mom's opinion WILL affect what she thinks of my OCing, and I want her to think positively instead of worry.
Like I said, though. My Mom's opinion isn't going to affect whether or not I OC. My Mom's opinion WILL affect what she thinks of my OCing, and I want her to think positively instead of worry.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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Its called respecting your parents, especially since hes currently living at home.
PreMod70
Member
Post to Skribs:
Sorry, but my read is you're baiting yourself for some serious trouble if you think flashing a weapon is a proper response to danger; once you point and worst use that weapon your world changes forever and it is not for the good, no matter what the cowboys tell you. I feel you wish to do the right thing but I do hope you reconsider, give yourself another decade at least of experience, gain some S/D tactics and spend your time doing some good for yourself and family, not worrying them to death.
Sorry, but my read is you're baiting yourself for some serious trouble if you think flashing a weapon is a proper response to danger; once you point and worst use that weapon your world changes forever and it is not for the good, no matter what the cowboys tell you. I feel you wish to do the right thing but I do hope you reconsider, give yourself another decade at least of experience, gain some S/D tactics and spend your time doing some good for yourself and family, not worrying them to death.
PreMod, it sounds more like you're baiting me by making that statement. I have said clearly that I am not going to flash my weapon the instant a red flag shoots up, because most of those are false alarms. I would only draw if I knew there was a clear danger present...which is the purpose of a self defense handgun.
NavyLCDR
member
So, a person should not carry to be able to defend themselves with until they are 33 years old?
Skribs came here, asked an honest question, evaluated the comments, wants to open carry for valid reasons, but wants to cause his mother to feel more comfortable with that. Seems to me like that shows a lot of maturity. Just because he chooses to carry in a way that some people don't like, including his mom, is no sign of immaturity or anything else, other than a person who has weighed the facts v. opinion v. theory v. fable and has chosen what he feels is best and most effective for him.
PreMod70
Member
Your 7-11 senario is what will get you hurt in the real world, a badguy with a knife will see your OC and harpoon you while using your weapon to further continue his ploy. OC is showing your power in the S/D sense and makes you weaker, never stronger. A badguy will case an area before taking action and by showing your strength you are first on the badguys list of hits, the video's so popular today show inexperienced punk's making all kinds of mistakes, the badguy doesn't do this, you are the prey in his world and flashing heat around him is a big mistake. Go take yourself a good S/D course and see if you can find an instructor worth his salt that will tell you to OC; never happen.
PreMod70
Member
Never said that Skribs should not be able to defend himself, rather, wish he would listen to his Mothers wisdom and carry CC. If you or him really wish to maximise your S/D skills you would never choose to OC. I guarantee you that if ever confronted by a real badguy your thoughts will change quickly. The OC carry runs the punks away, not the badguys; luckily the world is full of punks.
PreMod70 said:
Has this EVER happened?
Can you show us an example to prove it is more than a figment of your imagination?
Sure, it could happen...but since, as far as any of us knows, it never has it certainly isn't very likely now is it?
PreMod70 said:
Bullcrap.
The word is deterrence. Look it up.
PreMod70 said:
BULLCRAP.
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-atlanta/open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-kennesaw
"Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw
Captain Jerry Quan, the Commander for Precinct One, where the Wafflehouse is located, confirmed Matt Brannan's story as one in which the open display of a pistol deterred a well armed robbery crew. "
Now that I have taken the initiative and provided proof that directly and unarguably contradicts your statements perhaps you can provide us with some proof that your statements are in any way, shape or form legitimate.
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NavyLCDR
member
PreMod70 said:
So his mother is a self defense expert and wise on the subject based upon her actual, real world experience and vast training? Or is she wise for no other reason than she agrees with you.
It's funny how everybody who agrees with your opinion is wise, and everyone else is a fool. Did you ever stop to think that there are wise, well trained persons who open carry as well? No, of course not, because open carry can be nothing more than foolish to you, because you don't agree with it for whatever reason you choose to justify your feelings with.
Isn't it funny how none of your wise people can come up with one instance where an open carrier was at the scene of a crime, stabbed or shot, and their gun taken from them?
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