Cop bashing

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While still living in LA County, on my lunch break several LAPD would go to the same places I did for lunch because it was just outside of the city limits. I sometimes tried to say hello and engage them in the kind of neighborly dialog you might have with a store clerk or fellow customer. They would look at me like I was a frickin alien. The attitude I got basically amounted to "Who is this person trying to talk to me". Only one of perhaps 10 regulars there actually responded like a normal person, said hello and chatted about the weather. There is a distinctly cliquish dimension to many of the police officers I've met in my encounters with them. This behavior is much more pronounced in big cities.

One day on my way to a local range, a cruiser started following me just about where the freeway off ramp is. They followed me for nearly two miles without making any moves toward me. Only when I turned on my blinker for the street where the range is did they turn on the lights and pull me over. The range is the ONLY thing on that dead end street and happens to be owned by two former LAPD. When one of the officers came to my window, he immediately asked where I was going. Since the range was the only possible destination and we were literally 20 feet from the entrance to it, I told him the range. He then asked if I had any guns in the car with me. In turn, I asked him why he had pulled me over. He said I had run a red light (impossible, the major street I turned onto is constantly busy and you can't turn against a red without coming to a complete stop to wait for the traffic to break). He again asked about guns and I told him yes, I did. He asked if I was transporting them properly and I said yes, they are unloaded, locked in their cases and in the back of the car. He asked if he could "check to see" that they were being transported properly. I said that he may, but that I do not consent to a search of my car. He asked me out of the car and sat me on the sidewalk. He took the two cases out of my car and gave them to his partner, who took them to the trunk of the cruiser. While his partner "checked" my guns in the trunk, where I could not see him, the first officer went and searched my car against my wishes. A short time later, the partner comes back and says that he "found" a round in the chamber of one of the guns and they arrest me. Before going to the range, I had cleaned both guns the night before. I didn't have any 9mm ammunition in my possession at the time and had intended on buying some at the range to shoot that gun. There is no way that either of them had been loaded. The police department of that city, I later learned, is issued 9mm Glocks.

I have no criminal record before or since. My car was properly registered and insured, I had no outstanding tickets or warrants. I drive a stock Jeep Wrangler Sport and typically dressed at the time in jeans, t-shirts and a ball cap. There were no bumper or window stickers on my Jeep at the time, not even an NRA sticker.

My case was later dismissed when the judge, after hearing the partner testify that he could not even confirm that there even is a light at the intersection they accused me of running through. It was clear from the beginning that the primary purpose of them stopping me on my way to the range was to hassle and possibly arrest (fraudulently if necessary) a lawful gun owner. They might not have thought that the charges would stick, but what they were counting on was that I wouldn't have adequate defense or that I would make a mistake. Nothing ever happened to them for falsifying evidence, since the trial never got that far. In spite of asking for them repeatedly, I did not get my two pistols back from over 2 years. I asked my lawyer to look into it and he said "It's LA County, they're gone, forget about it." When I finally got them back, a recent decree had come down that confiscated property, including firearms, had to be returned to the rightful owners in cases that were dismissed or acquitted. Even so, when I talked to the property clerk who returned the guns to me, he said that the department often "lost" guns they didn't want to return, or had them destroyed before the defendant had a chance to get them back. I only got mine because that particular clerk felt it was bogus and because he wanted to return everyone’s' property before he retired in a few weeks.

When I was in grade school, a high school student at my father's school accused him of rape. The police treated my father with tremendous disrespect and cruelty, despite the fact that the girl was a known liar and drug addict. For three years my family went through hell because of that case and in defending himself, my father had to spend all of what he had saved to put my sister and me through college, but the greatest indignity was the treatment of the police, which my father would never forget.

With all of that having been said, I do not hate police officers. Rather, for most of them I hold a high level of respect. They perform a very difficult job and frequently do so with distinction and honor. I am personally considering a job in law enforcement, and in my current job of fraud investigation, I work with law enforcement from many different agencies, all of whom have been professional and courteous in our communications.

However, I will never stop criticizing those people in law enforcement who feel they are above the law. I will not relent in calling out police who feel that they are separate and above the people they are supposed to serve. I will not let slide the abuses that eventually drive all peoples into submission and servitude.

You can bring up all the emotional appeals about LEOs on 9/11, saving cats from burning houses, whatever; but those examples never justify the abuses of power, or even the elitist attitudes, of many of their brethren. Nor does a "correct outcome", such as mine, or a correction made by the courts, justify abuse of power by those who enforce the law. Intimidation and imposition alone of unlawful influence and force will keep a populace cowed and compliant, and no doubt indignant toward police. Indeed, the men and women who serve the people righteously and consider themselves a part of the community should be doing everything in their power to root out the power hungry and the cruel in their midst who tarnish the badges they have valiantly worn.

"Law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual." --Thomas Jefferson
 
So, ole Centec disappears.

Ya, he was stirring the pot. Probably one of those GOD-like LEO's from over at Glocktalk Coptalk.

Centec is the very reason the the us-them attitudes around here.

Centec, if you read this, I fish. I put worms in my coffee can. I hope you grow up some day and don't ever think about moving to Portland, OR. Thanks. I depise cops like you.

Keep up the attitude dude. :neener:
 
You can bring up all the emotional appeals about LEOs on 9/11, saving cats from burning houses, whatever; but those examples never justify the abuses of power, or even the elitist attitudes, of many of their brethren.
So tell me what excuses an elitist attitude such as the one you portray in the above quote? Did anyone here try to give emotional flare to this discussion regarding 9/11 or saving cats. No they did not but, they did give real life examples (and many people are readily familiar with 9/11) of how cops and other LEOs routinely help. You seemingly then try to imply that this is somehow standing up for dirtbag cops. maybe you had better go back and reference my last post, the one which made reference to 9/11 in a logical thoughtful but unemotional manner, and read it again. Do I ever write or even imply that bad cops should be given anything but jail time? Does anyone here in this thread, who is an LEO, advocate for abuse of power as you seemingly imply. I don't see that anywhere except maybe from one guy (maybe an LEO maybe not) who has quite possibly gone overboard if only likely because, in my opinion, he has trouble expressing himself or because he is confused as to what constitutes probable cause.

For your information, I have personally turned in other LEOs who have committed abuses of authority that I witnessed. Does that sound to you like supporting abuse of power. I just don't see where you get off implying that someone was supportive of such by mentioning service of law enforcement officers at the WTC - especially those at the dump who searched for body parts. That was not written about to stir emotion, that was written about because I'll bet my bottom dollar that not a handful of the non-LEOs (if that many) knew about that job being done. Yet you can all criticize LEOs for personal experiences you had with one or two in your whole lifetime. It amazes me.

Regarding one of your personal run ins with police, you said:
It was clear from the beginning that the primary purpose of them stopping me on my way to the range was to hassle and possibly arrest (fraudulently if necessary) a lawful gun owner.
That is not clear at all, and you are likely imagining this. You mean to tell me, that from the BEGINNING (as you described it) they followed you for TWO MILES knowing you were headed to the range? Is that what you are saying? What is clear however is that these two police officers targeted you for whatever reason. Maybe they saw you run a light, maybe not. I am not saying their search was legal, nor am I saying the stop was justified, but who is getting emotional when you say they followed you from the beginning just to arrest a lawful gun owner. I do believe that if all was just as you described, then they probably just picked you at random, they had no idea when TWO MILES away from your destination as to where you were headed. When they saw you turn into the range road they stopped you because that was their last chance to do it before you got off the road. You assume this was all due to you going to the range; I figure it was because no matter what they had planned on stopping you regardless of where you were headed - you just happened to go to the range.

There is no excuse for what they did if you did not commit a violation of traffic regulations or break a law. No decent LEO herein would excuse that at all. Yet all of this is no reason to try to twist the post of someone else to fit your agenda by in essence saying they were trying to flame the fires of emotions or, by implying that any decent LEO would support abuse of powers.

As for that elitist attitude you mention - well you are never going to rid police forces of that. Police deal will lowlife criminals on a daily basis. They do hold such an attitude to prevent themselves from seeing one another as dirtbags. This is a psychological mechanism to protect the ego. Besides that they train as a team, they operate as a team, they win as a team and they lose and grieve as a team. You are basically a spectator who call on them to score to make you happy, yet if they arrest someone close to you - you scream foul (this is meant generically and not with regard to your particular instances). So when they see another cop do something that is mot 100 percent ethical they don't always report it. They turn a sort of blind eye, but usually let the offender know he screwed up and if he does it again watch out for IA getting on your back. Yet when they see a real dirtbag among their own ranks it is often they who clamor the strongest to rid the force of the wrong doers. The Blue Wall of silence is long crumbled to the ground in most instances - except of course where dirty LEOs/cops are involved in supporting one another. I am not saying cops/leos run out to rat out one another for every little offense. That is not in their nature as I explained above as they are on a sort of team - there really is an us against them attitude that is necessary to make it through a work day of arrests, complaining citizens, a fellow officer being run down by a third party, not the guy he stopped while on a traffic stop (you have all seen this on TV lately I would think), a fellow officer being shot and killed, a new regulation that makes the cops give three additional pages of rights to an illegal alien from El Salvador, a new rule saying they must all refrain from certain habits on their own FREE time, a sergeant who has the sights on a guy that all the others feel for, not having lunch today and working 6 hours before getting a break, finally getting to a gut wrenching grease burger at some roadside pit stop where they want to take a break from it all and you show up and try to be chummy. This was not a bad thing on your part but lots of times people just take something like the cops' negative response way too personal without knowing the cops' side. So if they are not chummy with you when you say hi to them, maybe there is a reason. Maybe they had a really miserable day and after all they are human too and respond just like other people but, you see this as being cliquish. When is the last time you had to wrestle with a whacked out nut job who was trying to take away your gun to kill you and, then you get called a racist psycho cop if you shoot the guy. Would you restrain yourself once the guy was under control, once the threat was stopped. now figure this has happened 20, 30, 100 times in your career to one degree or another with you and bad guys; add on the fact that even the good guys give you grief such as the citizen who believe you should have arrested that guy, or should have let the other guy go, or were not polite enough, or were not quick enough, or gave someone I knew a hard time, or are all abusing power, or are all part of the hated government, or are all stooges of the government (regardless of their political convictions). This is not the type of thing the normal citizen faces repeatedly each day in his/her career unless an LEO.

Now as for you, do you think you are any different in those regards; the ones concerning a cliquish attitude. You, from the sounds of it, immediately sided with your father when he was accused of rape - was that a family clique? You say the accuser was a liar and a drug user. Hmm, do you realize that even liars, drug users and prostitutes can be raped? I am not implying for a moment that your father did such however; I only am pointing out how even a regular citizen is often involved in an us against them mentality. It was your father and your family against the police, the prosecutors, and the accuser wasn't it! That is human nature when part of a team.

And do you know what you would have believed if your father had actually done it? You likely would have believed he had not done it, you would have had a hard time accepting such, maybe you would have felt he must have cracked emotionally, or that somehow he was duped into it, or anything that would have at least in some manner supported him. Are the cops that different when it comes to human nature and their support of one another. Well sometimes no but, most times yes they are quite different. The answer is yes they are because they are trained and expected to overcome much of that human nature and still do the right thing.

Again, sure there are a lot of jerks and bad guys who are LEOs. Most though who are accused of bad things are in the same shoes as was your father. They are innocent until proven guilty and then they wind up with a not guilty verdict. The thing is that as in many criminal cases, as well as in accusations of non criminal nature, where there is an accuser - they have the deck stacked against them from the beginning just as did your dad. Look at it from that point of view and maybe you will see what I mean without thinking anyone is trying to get emotionally charged as opposed to being factually correct.

I understand you respect LEOs but, it is not really evident when you try to make it look or imply that what was said here by some LEOs was in anyway supportive of abuses of power. Maybe I misunderstood something but it was one of the messages I got in what you wrote.

Best regards,
Glenn B
 
I have personally turned in other LEOs who have committed abuses of authority that I witnessed.

What was the outcome? Go to IA? FBI? Did you have to testify in court? Broke the thin blue line, did you? I think I would change departments were I you...
 
Folks, I think we've had more than enough of this. From now on, please don't post "cop-bashing" threads here - they seem to bring the trolls out from under the bridges, and do no justice to the many thousands of good, honest LEO's out there. Enough! :fire:
 
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