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Cowboy loads for Home Defense

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sacp81170a

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My wife is very small of build (5'5", 98 lbs) compared to a knuckle dragger like me. We've tried her with a 20 ga. pump and the recoil was still more than she was comfortable with. She has found that her Marlin 1894 Guide Gun in .44 mag is very pleasant to shoot with .44 Special cowboy loads. She also has a Taurus Titanium snubby in .44 Special that's comfortable for her to shoot with cowboy loads. We've settled on this as her set up for HD purposes. I figure that a 230 gr LRN moving at 750-800 fps has enough oomph to do the job, especially at indoor distances. Thoughts?
 
Shot placement is key with any load.
800fps is plenty fast enough to put a serious hurt on a BG intent on doing her harm.
 
at the velocities for those cow boy loads your wife should try using some jhp. that marlin should be no recoil with 180 grain xtps, or the 44 special loads using a gold dot would be ok i THINK as far as recoil goes.
She has pentration with those loads, in wood 44 mag magtech cowboy loads do expand to roughly a quarter size in wet stumps.
someone else will undoubtedly suggest using a lead semi wadcutter or a lead semi wadcutter with a hollowpoint if avaliable.
 
Sounds quite adequate to me. Policemen carried 38's with less punch than you're speaking of for the better part of a century with good results.
 
230 grains....800 fps....that's roughly equivalent to winchester white box 45 acp. If you can get a nice hollowpoint that's been proven to open at those speeds attached to those numbers, then you should be sitting quite pretty.
 
Out of which barrel are you saying has the 750-800fps muzzle speed? There is quite a difference between a snubby barrel and a carbine length.
 
Yeah, that 18" barrel is going to bump the speed up. NOT by 50fps per 1" which is the usual rule of thumb in handguns - not unless the round is "tuned" for rifle barrel lengths, but it'll still be considerable.

Strong suggestion: get some of the CCI/Blazer 44Spl 200gr JHPs. From a 4" barrel handgun these seldom hit 900fps so they're down on power from, say, Buffalo Bore's version (1,100fps). BUT that rifle barrel will add some boost, probably take them into 1,100-1,200fps. That will put a serious hurt on anything it hits. Basically, this Blazer load is odd in that it uses a good projectile (Gold Dot, excellent pedigree) but loads it on the mild side. Recoil should be little worse if any than the cowboy loads and effectiveness may be as much as double.

Perfect ammo for this situation.
 
Out of which barrel are you saying has the 750-800fps muzzle speed?
Click to expand...

The snubby. I'm sure the carbine would give more fps, but I wouldn't want to guess how much, maybe a couple hundred. I'm planning on reloading some with SWC, but I'm not sure how that'll feed in a lever action. It's worth a try, though.

Edit:

Thanks for the tip on the CCI/Blazers, Jim. That means we'll have to find an excuse to go to the range again. ;)

For some strange reason, a lot of the ladies I know are more comfortable with lever actions than semi, bolt or pump action rifles. I'm not sure why women seem to like them over other long guns, but my wife keeps mentioning the Red Ryder she had as a girl.
 
Looks like you have it figured out, but just for options......how about a .410?

Before people start up with the .410 not being enough for SD..... check this out.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Winchester 3 inch 5 pellet buck.html

Seems to me that would do just fine. Or both....both would work also. ;)

** BTY I found a post that said winchester ST .44 specials (200 grain, I think) out of a 20 inch barrel were clocked at about 1000 fts.

I did the math and thats 444 foot pounds of energy. I would say thats pretty good. -(240 grain at 1000 fps is 532 ft/lbs) ouch & ouch!
 
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Hmm, looks like our ladies have similar tastes in carbines.

My wife's sole long gun is an old Rossi / Win 92 in .44mag. Action is slicker than owl snot.

I load "cowboy" loads for it with:
.44mag brass
240gr LSWC
Trail Boss, 7.3 grains (check & make sure)

Real easy on her & the '92, but the LSWC sure cuts a nice hole in whatever it is fired at. Muzzle flash? None to be spoken of, even in low light.

Before our kiddos were ambulatory, it was our HD long gun...with the above hand load.
 
I would go with a hollow point bullet that get as close as possible in weight and velocity to the cowboy loads you are using now. Parasite claims that policemen used lesser .38 round with good results. I should point out that the .38spl 158gr LRN earned the nickname "police widow maker" for a reason. One of my fellow deputies carried the same 1911 passed down from his grandfather. His grandfather bought the 1911 the day after he had to shoot an armed felon 9 times with his .38spl. As to historical "cowboy" we are talking about a 230gr projectile at 800 fps. The original 45 Colt load used by the U.S. Calvary was a 255gr projectile at 950 fps. The load your wife is using is "adequate", but why not add hollow points to the equation and stack the deck in her favor?

My "wife" load is a 158gr LSWCHP at 1000 fps from a 4" S&W 19. Manageable recoil, and effective performance in a gun that my wife can comfortable handle.
 
Since you (the OP) mention a 20 ga, have you considered putting a Knoxx stock on it? Suppose to reduce recoil considerably.

For indoors I still prefer a shotgun, for neighbor safety (I'm in a condo, neighbors on 3 sides).
 
My 1894C Feeds, Fires, and Functions Freely with .44 Special Keith 240 SWC on top of 7.5 Unique!

Kicks a little harder then a .22, but not enough to bother anyone.

I know I sure wouldn't want to get hit with one of them out of a six-gun, but especially not out of a carbine.

rcmodel
 
Since you (the OP) mention a 20 ga, have you considered putting a Knoxx stock on it?
Click to expand...

Actually I have thought about that. I have a Mossberg 590 with Knox's Spec Ops stock on it. I'll have to check and see if Knox makes a stock for the Mossberg 20 ga. She still likes the lever gun, however, simply because her arms aren't long enough for her to work the pump action comfortably. With the 20 ga. she also has only 5 rounds. With the 1894 Guide Gun she has 9 rounds.

With a Spec Ops stock we could adjust the length of pull so she can work the slide more easily, so it's probably worth a try. If she still doesn't like it, I get a 20 ga. with a Spec Ops stock on it. Win-win if you ask me. ;)
 
I'd say if the lever action works, stick with it.
No need to go cluttering things up by adding a shotgun that your wife already doesn't like.
If you can go JHP, no harm in that.
If JHP options don't pan out, your wife still has pretty good defensive weapons.
 
+1

It sounds like your wife likes the .44 Spl. combo she has.

If she likes it, she will probably shoot it enough to get pretty good with it.

"Pretty Good" beats not so good raw power almost every time!

rcmodel
 
That .44Spl combo that she can consistantly hit center-of-target will work a lot better than a 40MM Bofors Cannon round that doesn't hit the target....

Those Blazer .44Spl rounds with the Gold Dot bullet sound like the cat's meow for your intended purpose
 
+1 to cci/blazer 200 GD but run some thru it they dont eject well from my Charter BD,so I splurge for the Speer version with the nickel cases.
 
Hi,

Lead round nose bullets are the absolute worst possible bullet design for immediate and effective stops against a human attacker.

The round nose design punches the smallest wound channel, which almost immediately begins to close back up due to tissue swelling. The result can be a mortally wounded attacker who still has plenty of time to kill you before bleeding out!

I recommend a HOT hollow point for several reasons:

1. Under the stress of an attack, she will NOT feel the additional recoil or muzzle blast!

2. The hollow point should open and create a much better chance of stopping the attacker fast!

3. If the bullet passes through the BG, or misses, the hollow point will hopefully expand when striking other objects or walls . . . hopefully reducing potentially hurting or killing innocent people due to overpenetration.

Have her practice with the "powder puff" stuff and explain that she will probably not feel the extra kick of a hot hollowpoint self defense round during a stressful attack, and that the hollowpoints will be safer against the risk of passing through walls and injuring others.

Don't let her fill some BG full of round nose lead . . . only to be killed by the guy before he flees the house and bleeds out a few blocks away!!!


T.
 
Nothing wrong with cowboy stuff, but I wouldn't use a LRN.
Black Hills makes a 210 gr Flat Point cowboy load.
Midway has them in stock.
Also, a flat point is safer in a tube magazine than a round nose.
Not really THAT big a deal, but why take a chance?
 
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