Current Model 70

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rhtwist

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Howdy,
I have seen on the YT that the Winchester Model 70 rifle can chamber a round that is not in the magazine. Having the controlled round feed and claw, I thought it would be like the Mauser 98. Wondering if this is true as I didn't get a chance to try it out on mine........... If true, can someone explain how it is accomplished,
Secondly, is the bolt hold open on the last round accomplished by the magazine follower in the original mauser design?
Tanx
 
Hello Robert,
Thanks for your personal experience and knowledge. I don't know if they've changed it or what, but the guy on the video was feeding the rounds singly and shooting. Just dropped one in the opening and closing it, like a push Feed, I believe I've seen that the "newer" model 70s will close on an empty chamber... Again didn't get the chance :)-(. I can see the reason for that hold open feature myself, but wonder if it is considered a plus by the mainstream?
 
Virtually all modern CRF rifles now have the front of the extractor beveled to make it easier to slip over a round being fed directly into the chamber. This has been true since the early 90's when Winchester brought back CRF rifles. Ruger and Kimber do the same. All of the older guns did not have this feature and it is best to feed them directly from the magazine. I've had all 3 and have never had any issues loading directly into the chamber with any of them.

None of mine held the bolt open when the mag runs dry. Robert's rifle is a 375, all of mine were more common rounds such as 30-06, 308, 280, 338-06, 35 Whelen etc. That may make a difference.
 
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Hello,
Yes just from looking at a Mauser, to me it seems as if it wasn't designed to do so??!!!?!!! The YT said it was a new production which would be, recently. But Yt is not IMHO a bastion of fact. Your mileage may vary...
Tanx
 
Hey jmr40,
I can understand the push feed which has IIRC a small spring to allow the extractor to pivot and pop over the rim of the cartridge. On the controlled feed it seems to be much wider extractpr and must bend a stout bar of steel. I would like to know how this is done on the controlled feed claw extractor!! Is the extractor made that much weaker to accomplish this?
 
Just as jmr40 said, extractors on controlled feed rifles are designed so they CAN jump the rim & chamber. Even on a Mauser, it chambers fine. Just a tad bit more effort. But of course it’s going to work the part harder than intended all the time.

Secondly, every empty mag hold open is accomplished via the follower. It’s the only part that moves letting the bolt know the firearm is empty. Rifle, pistol…doesn’t matter.
 
My Model 70 bought in 2019 chambers loose rounds just fine. If there's much more resistance it's negligable to the point of me not really taking note.
 
On most military Mauser, the extractor has a sharp, full profile to give maximum effectiveness on extraction of possibly hard extraction. Spotters have the forward edge of the extractor to allow it to flex to permit slideing over the cartridge rim. The rearward edge of the follower is abrupt to prevent the bolt from moving forward, closing on an empty chamber.

I’ve got a M98 Sporter built from a 1938 Spanish La Carolina action. Both the extractor and magazine follower have been beveled to allow closing bolt on an empty chamber without depressing the mag follower. Also it closes on a chambered round. The rifle was converted circa 1969 and has taken over 100deer since conversion to .257Roberts in 1983. Extractor shows no distress from closing over chambered cartridges.

My two MkX and a Midland Arms (Santa Barbara action) action rifle I had also closed over chambered rounds and had beveled followers.
 
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Howdy and thanks for the explanation. I've never been willing to force a military mauser extractor over the cartridge rim. But the Winchester isn't one ot them. Noticed another mauser that had the hold open not applied to it originally. Interesting!
 
Oh YEAH, I agree!!!! What caliber is your beauty in? Is it inappropriate to ask for pictures???
 
Hey Robert, checked on a military mauser from 1930's and it's magazine follower does not hold the bolt open, appears as if there is a small ramp at the followers lett rear..... Maybe??
 
Howdy Bcwitt, I am only speculating but, IIRC the mauser bolt actions were designed for military service primarily and feeding was with a 5 round stripper clip, it was probably considered beneficial to know when you were empty. Before not after you pull the trigger and nothing occurs.The heat of battle and such!!
 
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Thanks for the experienced knowledge of the issue. That is an enviable track record and to me an intersting caliber!
 
rhtwist said:
Hey Robert, checked on a military mauser from 1930's and it's magazine follower does not hold the bolt open, appears as if there is a small ramp at the followers lett rear..... Maybe??
Click to expand...
On my 1944 K98 the follower blocks the bolt and acts as a last round hold open. However, I was mistaken about my Model 70. It does not have a bolt hold open feature. My 1903 and K98 have hold open features, but not the Winchester.
 
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My Model 70, made in 1938, can be loaded directly into the chamber and the beveled extractor slips easily over the rim. My sporterized M1894 Swede, on the other hand must be loaded through the magazine.
 
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There are people whose poor mechanical skills limit them to screwing in a light bulb. It's the same people who would jump a claw extractor over a cartridge rim. Over time they would complain about cartridges falling out of a weak extractor. It's also the same people who would empty a magazine by running the cartridges through the chamber with the safety off. I have friends and relatives like that but not very many!
 
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The safari hunter who got tired of his "modern" action dropping its floor plate and failing to pull its empties bought a Brevex Magnum Mauser.
He wanted to be able to "top up" but had to grind a clearance inside the receiver ring for the extractor to jump over the rim of that extra round.
 
I have several CRF, claw extractor rifles and have had no problem top loading, single feeding rounds.

As a matter of fact, my Mausingfield has had nothing but single feeding for ~10,000 rounds with no issue.

I also have a project in the works using an FN Mauser single shot target action.

043CEE11-7F27-47A0-AD62-024471778122.jpeg

How can this be if you can only load Mausers from a magazine?

Such is the nature of myths and mysteries I guess ;)
 
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I guess that’s a good point. 1903 Springfields are crf Mauser actions and come with the magazine cutoff feature. They were designed for single feed as the primary way to load and the magazine as a backup.
 
Nature Boy said:
I have several CRF, claw extractor rifles and have had no problem top loading, single feeding rounds.

As a matter of fact, my Mausingfield has had nothing but single feeding for ~10,000 rounds with no issue.

I also have a project in the works using an FN Mauser single shot target action.

View attachment 1097584

How can this be if you can only load Mausers from a magazine?

Such is the nature of myths and mysteries I guess ;)
Click to expand...
Some Mausers -- my Swede, for example -- do not have the beveled extractor and can only be loaded through the magazine. My pre-64 model 70, my custom '03 in .35 Brown-Whelen, and both my 03A3s will all single load.

In fact, the Springfield with it's magazine cutoff was designed to single load.
 
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