Currious about "buffalo rifles"

[swampcrawler]

Iv been getting more and more interested lately in the "buffalo gun" type rifles. The big 45/70 falling/rolling block guns. The interest stems partially from the nostalgia of these classic American guns, partially from the impressive results I saw from my 45/70 on hog and white tail last year, and partially because I just haunt messed with one before.

I'm currious as to what would be a good rifle to look at? It would be mostly just a fun gun but I do hunt some public land for whitetail durring primitive arms season that could potentially offer 300 yard shots. Would one of the Uberti rifles be a good place to start?

Also I'd love any personal stories or history lessons anyone would care to offer regarding the big bore single shots.

 

[Texas Moon]

http://www.shilohrifle.com/

http://ballardarms.com/

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_63/rifles-1874-sharps-rifle.html

 

[MattShlock]

Buffalo Rifles need REALLY BIG trigger guards for them to get their hooves in.

Sorry.

There are a few suggestions. I was recommended to the bigger-than .45-70 like 90, 110, etc. That if you are gonna do it, DO IT vs. the creampuff 70 grains of blackpowder rifle for crying out loud.

 

[Prairie Dawg]

I suggest you pick up a copy of Mike Venturino's book.
http://www.amazon.com/Shooting-Buff...qid=1377054672&sr=8-3&keywords=mike+venturino
--Dawg

 

[Don McDowell]

1874 Sharps is the classic buffalo gun. There were a lot of Rolling blocks used as well. Altho most of the buffalo were killed with the 44-77 in both rifles.
For a quality investment in Sharps, take a close look at the Shiloh and C Sharps rifles. The Uberti's are made by Pedersoli, and both those brands are alright, but you really have to watch the prices, as those imported rifles don't always represent as big of a cost savings as one might think.
Once a fella catches on to a good load and using the supplied ladder sights, those guns are capable of fine accuracy to 300 yds and beyond. Add a good soule sight and globe front and there's fine accuracy to be had out to 1000 yds even with the 45-70 cartridge

 

[Crawdad1]

If you want the absolute best buffalo rifle built today, start here;

http://csharpsarms.com/

http://www.shilohrifle.com/


Another interesting story about these great rifles is the shoot at Creed's Moor where the American team bested the Irish team to win the world cup in 1870s. The Creed family owned the farm they shot on, great story.

 

[mdauben]

You've gotten some excellent recomendations for good Sharps, High Wall, or Rolling Block reproductions. These are all great rifles, but IIRC they all start at well over $1000, with some of them in the $2000-3000 dollar range.

If you are hesitant to invest so much in a "fun gun" you might also look at the H&R "Buffalo Classic" in .45-70. Its a single-shot, break-barrel rifle which while not a reproduction of an actual historical rifle, does have a certain "classical 19th century" styling to it for around $400-500.

 

[Zeke/PA]

Just in my estimation only. the Sharps rifle(s) got most of the attention during the "Buffalo" era and for whatever reason, a far surperior rifle. the Ballard took a back seat.

 

[Don McDowell]

Ballard's came late in the buffalo period and were more commonly associated with smaller cartridges and target matches. Even at that they weren't as popular as either the sharps or the rolling block for target guns.

 

[Don McDowell]

Interesting side note on the ballard rifles, in Homer Fishers ( a large mail order house) 1880 catalog Ballards are nearly 10$ higher than either the Sharps or Remingtons, and that's for the cheapo standard models.

 

[Slamfire]

I picked a Winchester BPCR 1885 action. Even though the 1885 action is a little late for Buffalo hunters, it is one of the strongest and safetest of the actions used in single shot rifles.

Uberti's are fine.

You know, I wish someone made a big bore rifle around the Martini Henry action. That action is an excellent design.

 

[Don McDowell]

The martini is an offspring of the Peabody rifle. They were making those Peabody's again, but haven't heard anything about them for awhile. I believe the name of the company is Providence tool and die.
Peabody submitted 3 of their rifles to the Army for testing in 1864, the cartridge that won out above all other's ? 45 caliber 70 grs of powder and a 480 gr bullet (looks much like the saeco 645 bullet)

 

[StrawHat]

I would be surprised if more buffalo were not killed by the Single Shot Springfield Rifle than all the others used at the time. The Sharps may be the one that got the publicity but the Trapdoor got the job done.

 

[Crawdad1]

I read in Field & Stream where they were reprinting old articles. Back in the 1920’s they interviewed an old trader living out on the frontier and when asked how people were armed he said usually a big old single shot rifle, muzzleloader or otherwise, for hunting and a Colt for close in work. (A guess he meant by close in work was self defense) I don’t know or can’t remember if they ever explained that term, "Close in work." I have often heard but never read where a lot of people would buy the Army surplus muzzleloading Springfields after the Civil War (or the War of Northern Aggression) for a song and go out west to hunt buffalo. I heard more than once it was the Springfield that did all of the work.

 

[Don McDowell]

The military didn't turn loose of hardly any of the 50 caliber springfields until well after the new 45 caliber was fully issued. That didn't happen until about the time the southern herd was done for.
When you read the accounts from those guys, most of them started out with whatever gun they had on hand for the first trip, if they went back for a second dose they did so with a Sharps or Remington.
Sharps and Remington both offered the 50-70 and 44 2 1/4 bottleneck as early as 1869.

 

[greyhaven]

Martini-Greener .45-70

I have a Martini-Greener (same as the Martini-Henry, actually) in .45-70, made sometime around the '80's I believe, by Navy Arms. They bought up a bunch of the actions, and made a nice rifle with them. As for black powder loads, 70 g ain't so puny, in fact, that load has taken every kind of game on this continent. Actually, a modern .45-70 case only holds 65g, which does just fine. Use 3f or cartridge grade BP. Mine really likes 12.5 g. of Trail Boss. The Martini-Greener can handle the modern hi-velocity loads just fine, though I shoot mainly target and choose not to beat myself up. I can't get into my photo files, for some reason, but you can see my Martini on my web site, www.greyhavenarms.com, on the sinjgle-shot page.

 

[Cosmoline]

In the early days hunters would just ride into the herd, spit-loading muzzleloaders and firing randomly to kill as many as possible. There was no precision shooting involved. It was when the herds started dwindling after the Civil War that the professional hunters needed longer and longer range rifles to get what was left. The end results, apart from the near-extinction of the shaggy beasts, were the ultimate black powder rifles.

If you want to move up to the Sharps bring your wallet! For example I have a revamped .50-70 that cost me $500 including dies. A .50-90 or .50-100 Sharps would run many times that amount.

 

[StrawHat]

...The military didn't turn loose of hardly any of the 50 caliber springfields until well after the new 45 caliber was fully issued...

And in turn, they kept tight rein on the 45-70s. Much like the present day M-16s, not for the masses. A few got out but not many. I got my timeline on the dwindling of the herds mixed up.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

The US military after the 45\70 cartridge became standard would give away the ammo to the buffalo hunters for the asking on the western frontier. The rationale behind this was eliminate the buffalo and the Native Americans on the Great Plains have no food or shelter. The tactic worked, forcing them to become dependent on the US Government for everything. Kind of like what the government is trying to do to everyone else today.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

+1 on MIke Venturino's book, Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West. The best book out there to familiarize yourself with the old single shots and the old cartridges. Mike has a chapter on each design, Sharps, 1885 Winchester, Rolling Block, etc. He gives you the history of each model. And he has another section about each cartridge and how to load it. No Smokeless in this book, it is strictly about loading the old cartridges and shooting them with Black Powder. There are two more chapters, one about the basics of loading the old cartridges, and another on tips of the experts who win the prizes in BPCR. This book is really worth the money.

One thing to be aware of is that one rifle may not serve for both hunting and shooting at 300 yards. I have two rifles chambered for 45-70. An original Springfield Trapdoor, and a Pedersoli Sharps. My Sharps weighs close to 11 pounds. I would not like to have to carry it very far in the woods.

Regarding the other calibers, such as 45-110 or 45-120; I strongly suggest you start with 45-70 and forget about such more esoteric cartridges. 45-70 brass and other components are much easier to find, and much less expensive, than some of the more esoteric cartridges. And there is much more published data available about 45-70 than any of the others. 45-70 will put down any game that walks in North America. No real need for some of the other rounds. Mike agrees with me on this, if you are going to get a single shot, start with 45-70. After you have that under your belt, which may take forever, you can buy a rifle chambered for one of the other rounds. A friend has a tricked out Sharps replica chambered for 45-120. I want to tell you, that gun punishes you when it is fired.

Like most others, when I started looking for a Sharps I wanted all the extras. checkering, pewter forend cap, etc. But when I started handling rifles I discovered that I was not impressed with the execution of some of these features. So rather than buy a rifle that I was going to be aggravated about, I decided to buy a 'plain jane' model.

I found what I was looking for at Dixie Gunworks.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_184&products_id=2576

Mine cost $800 a few years ago.

I also ordered a relatively inexpensive tang sight and upgraded the front sight too.

One other thing. Avoid crescent shaped buttplates with 45-7. My Sharps has a 'shotgun style' butt plate. Much less punishing than a crescent with a heavy recoiling round like 45-70.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Read the Buffalo harvest by Mayer, excerpts were online as part of a PBS special
Remmie rollers and Sharper ruled the 1870,s buff hunter industry.

I remember reading that the Indians preferred the 50-70 for buffalo.

I have several originals, but my only Sharps is a Garret repro
Rollers, trap doors, Sniders, martinis, hepburns, a wesson, ballards,
Hi-wall , whitney,, probably others, I can't remember off hand

 

[Missionary]

Greetings
My first was a 1873 Trapdoor 45-70 that was plenty accurate for start. Realise a Trapdoor probably wil have a very fat throat and require a .462 bullet to be an accurate rifle even with 3F.
My next was a Navy Arms Roller action I had rebarreled with a 33 inch barrel made by Buaska. That one is still my most accurate 45-70 to date. Happily that one has a .458 groove so 40-1 bullets from most any mold will work fine with 3F. I had this one throated so I could seat the bullets out farther and that way the case can hold more 3F.
Also have an origonal Peabody 45-70 that is a very accurate rifle. A Ballard in 38 Long, other Rollers and Trapdoors.
If I was to start out agian I would go the Roller route. Find a #1 size action (Military) and a bad barrel and get yourself a .458 groove 32 inch barrel mounted. A Roller with a good barrel and good sights will shoot as well as any other rifle out there and cost you far less dollars. Sharps are OK rifles. I cannot see paying triple for a rifle just because some think it is the best. It is the man behind the sights that wins.
Mike in Peru

 

[Jim Watson]

Pedersolis and Ubertis are serviceable rifles. Starting around $1000 and going up with no logic in price and model that I can see.

The best bargain in true quality that I know of is the C. Sharps 1875. It doesn't have the glamor of the 1874 but they can turn out a solid rifle for $1370.

Me?
I have a Winchester Single Shot ("highwall") in .38-55 and a Browning "1885" in .40-65. The .45-70 kicks more than I can handle for a match. OK for hunting, I am sure.

 

[MattShlock]

I'm sorry, I know the .45-70 isn't a .223 AR gas gun. But when did (factory at the very least) .45-70 become a hard-recoiling gun to shoot? I'm really pretty stunned. Is it because it has any!?

Yeah, it'll be the cheapest and easiest to shoot and most resaleable caliber...

 

[goon]

Right now I've got a real soft spot for the 1874 Sharps military rifle C. Sharps is making.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product.php?productid=132&cat=11&page=1

Saw one like it on Pawn Stars (only a real one) and I didn't know about that configuration until then. Now I really want one. I'm planning to start saving $50 a month toward it when I can.

It's interesting that in addition to "normal" Sharps calibers, they also make it in 30-40 Krag. That would take some thought... but I think at the end of the day, the .45-70 is still probably the way to go.