CZ-75s and WWB 9mm value pack

[Tired_and_hungry]

Dear All,

I previously posted about how I was having problems with my made in 1995 CZ-75 (No B) that had been bought un-used from a dealers armoury in NIB condition. In the first 1200 rounds, all of which was WWB, it gave me 13 FTEs and even after I swapped out the recoil spring for an improved one and changed the extractor and extractor spring for factory fresh spares from CZ, it still gives me FTEs and stovepipes! Today, I shot 400 rounds of WWB 9mm and I experienced 10 FTEs even after I had changed recoil and extractor springs before shooting and has swapped out the recoil spring for a new one at the end of the last range session!

Do any of you guys who own cz-75s have problems with 9mm WWB especially the 100 round value packs? If you do then do other brands of 9mm provide better reliability?

 

[SwampWolf]

Do any of you guys who own cz-75s have problems with 9mm WWB especially the 100 round value packs?

Other than reloads, WWB ammunition from the 100 round value pack (via WalMart) is about all I use in my (newer) CZ-85B. No problems with the stuff yet after just under a thousand rounds expended. Have you tried different magazines?

 

[Tired_and_hungry]

To Swampwolf:

Yes, I have swapped out magazines before. The problem still persists.

Dear Mods:

Please send this thread to the autoloader forum. I placed it in "general handguns" by mistake.

 

[NG VI]

Have you replaced magazine springs?

If you hadn't already fired 1600 rounds from it I might guess that it could want some hotter ammunition to break in with, but the CZs I've had have never been ammo sensitive, so I guess that isn't all that likely anyway.

 

[MK11]

Try different ammo before you do anything else with the gun. The Winchester value packs are notorious for being underpowered and often poor quality. It's been a while since I've had some problems with it, but several years ago a run of the value packs gave my Sig P239 fits, and that thing would feed rocks if you could squeeze them into the magazine.

I'm guessing it's ammo, not gun (and I'm not part of the CZ fanclub)

 

[wildehond]

I had a CZ Pre B model years ago. Was my firsrt handgun. It fed anything I put throught it form my lame reloads to full factory +P ammo.
I remember the guns were not finished that well those days, but all the ones I encountered where VERY reliable.

I see you said you have already replaced the extractor. All I can think of now is a rough chamber or that there is an issue vir the ejector. See if you can find another CZ75 or CZ75B and compare the ejectors.

Fire a few rounds and then eject the round in the chamber by hand and see if you can see any marks on the case or where the extractor grabs the case.

Still wierd to me.

 

[TonyT]

If changing ammo does not work themn I would suspect it is the shooters grip that requires attention. I have never seen a CZ-75 that does not function reliably. My CZ-75 will shoot ammo that kit even a bit oversized for my other 9omm's.

 

[Vonderek]

When you changed to a new recoil spring are you using the standard 14 lb spring?

 

[Gunnerboy]

Hmm my guess is the crappy cheap winchester garbage your shooting thru your gun.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Try to find some Sellier & Bellot 124gr or Speer Lawman 124gr. That's all I shoot out of my CZs for practice ammo and none of them every hiccup.

 

[Tired_and_hungry]

To Vonderek:

the factory recoil spring was swapped out for a heavier weight 15# wilson combat spring and initially, that seemed to improve reliability, even giving me a trouble free 150 shot string at one point but today, my pistol was choking and gagging even with the new recoil spring, extractor and extractor spring.

1st 100 rounds = 4 FTEs
2nd 100 rounds = 2 FTEs
3rd 100 rounds = 1 FTE and 1 stovepipe
4th 100 rounds = 1 FTE and 1 stovepipe

 

[BCRider]

If the WWB ammo is a little on the weak side then by going UP to a 15lb spring you went the wrong way.

First off I'd suggest you strip off the top end and chamber check both the ammo and some spent brass from YOUR gun in the chamber. Fresh rounds should literally slip in and fall out as you let them slide in on a 45 degree tilt. If they don't then something is sticky. Similarly spent brass from your gun should easily push into the chamber with at most a light finger push and come out with a light rap of the hand holding the barrel against the table or other hand to "eject" the brass. If you need to use a fingernail to pull it out or if you felt it get sticky on the way in then your gun MAY have a tight chamber which may be causing the extractor to not be able to pull it out.

As for setting the recoil spring to match the ammo it's pretty easy to use visual observation. Shoot the gun downrange for a few shots and watch how the ejected brass flies out. You're looking for about a 2 foot or bigger arc out to the side. If it's dribbling out over the back of your hand with less than a 2 foot arc the recoil spring rate is too heavy. Go for something lighter.

My own CZ's chuck the brass out about 4 feet before they are back to the level of the gun and land about 6 to 7 feet away from me. This MAY be a little far. But the guns are 99.9999% reliable. In fact other thay trying to shoot some of the cheap MFS ammo recently I don't recall when I last had an FTE. And I've shot some commercial reloads, some Remington 124, some Blazer Brass 124 and some Blazer Alumiunium 115 all within the last couple of months.

More than likely the WWB ammo is too weak for the recoil spring you're using. I suggested the chamber check just to see if the ammo is sticky. But more than likely you simply went the wrong way by going up to a 15 lb spring from the factory 14 lb spring. If the guys are right and the WWB ammo is lower in power than normal then you should be going down to a 12 or 13 lb recoil spring.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Try a Wolff extra-strength extractor spring.

The original extractor springs are OK, but with dirty ammo (and WWB is a bit dirty), gunk can build up behind (under) the extractor and it can't close as tightly as it ought to close. The extra-strength extractor spring will give the extractor a little extra gripping power.

You can also use a spray can of brake cleaner to clean out the extractor channel periodically. That might solve the problem. (Be sure to remove the grips before you do, as some solvents will EAT the plastic grips.)

 

[Furncliff]

O.P. if you get to that point...the CZUSA gunsmiths in Kansas City are great to work with. Don't email, give them a call.

Contact info:
http://www.cz-usa.com/contact-us/

 

[BCRider]

.....You can also use a spray can of brake cleaner to clean out the extractor channel periodically. That might solve the problem. (Be sure to remove the grips before you do, as some solvents will EAT the plastic grips.)

That's what I thought. I was hosing out or otherwise blowing out the extractor area pretty consistently. Then one day recently I actually removed it. It was like the La Brea tar pits inside the spring recess!!!!! Clearly I'd been delaying the obvious at best. I'll be removing the pin, extractor and spring for a proper cleaning more frequently. Likey every 3000 to 5000 or so from here on in since it took me something like 10000 to 12000 rounds to get it this dirty. I'll still spray it out with various solvents in the meantime to delay the need for it. But be warned that the goop does build in there despite any sprays used to clean it out.

 

[Trebor]

I have a 1996 CZ-75B that also doesn't like WWB.

It runs fine with pretty much any other ammo, but I get failures to extract with WWB. I think it has something to with inconsisent QC on the rim size of the ammo, but that is just speculation.

My fix is to shoot different ammo through that pistol.

 

[chris in va]

I had numerous FTE with my 2003 75bd. Long story short, MecGar mags and taper crimping everything cured the issue. Wolff extra power springs aren't as strong as MecGar mags.

 

[1SOW]

Over 50K rds on a comp. 75B: Never had a failure to extract, "EXCEPT" for aluminum-cased Blazer 9mm years ago during the ammo shortages. An X-tra power extractor spring ran one full box smoothly. Never shot them again.

Before I reloaded, WWB (BOX OF 50 with the styrofoam liner) was faultless in the gun. I still believe the WWB of "50" is great ammo. The WIN cases are my preferred brass for reloading.

Scrounging brass at the range, I've found many of the WWB of "loose" 100 rds are now using "wcc" brass. This is also excellent brass , but requires chamferring.

 

[Yelovitz_503]

sorry for the double post, my internet was going weird when I tried this last night. Admins feel free to delete this post, my actual response is below.

 

[Tired_and_hungry]

To all those who have tried other ammo

To all the CZ-75 users who's pieces have choked repeatedly on WWB, what other ammo other than Speer Lawman or Sellier and Bellot do you recommend which CZ 75s seem to like? I've seen PMC mentioned here. Is 9mm PMC ammo a sure fire cure for the WWB curse?? Do federal 9mm hi-shoks feed well in CZ-75s?

Also....to everyone:
Is there any truth to the rumour that WWB 9mm is actually made in the Czech Republic by Sellier & Bellot?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Is there any truth to the rumour that WWB 9mm is actually made in the Czech Republic by Sellier & Bellot?

I've never heard THAT rumor. I'm pretty sure that WWB is made in the US, with slightly less tight quality control than more expensives Winchester rounds (accounting for some of the lower price).

(It would be hard to have it made overseas and sell it as cheaply as it's sold, once you add in the cost of shipping, the relative value of currencies, etc.)

I've always liked Sellier & Bellot with CZs, and have never had problems with Blazer aluminum rounds. I tend to buy in bulk from Natchez Shooter's Supply, getting either Blazer or S&B, whichever is least costly, for range fodder.

 

[Yelovitz_503]

ammo

I have a CZ 75 B Omega (right hand safety only) and I've never had this issue. It's been a great gun, and while I used to have another with the ambi safety I sold it a while back and kept this one. I generally don't have FTE issues or feed problems with that gun. The ammo I stick with is Sellier & Bellot, PMC, or Independence for FMJs. Independence is the only one I've ever had issues with but it was primer related and not a weapon malfunction. For HPs I always use Speer Gold Dot, both +P and regular. I've never bought ammo from Walmart, it sounds cheap, but it also sounds like you're getting what you pay for.

 

[schmeky]

the factory recoil spring was swapped out for a heavier weight 15# wilson combat spring and initially, that seemed to improve reliability, even giving me a trouble free 150 shot string at one point but today, my pistol was choking and gagging even with the new recoil spring, extractor and extractor spring.
1st 100 rounds = 4 FTEs
2nd 100 rounds = 2 FTEs
3rd 100 rounds = 1 FTE and 1 stovepipe
4th 100 rounds = 1 FTE and 1 stovepipe

I believe we have a "Check" here. First mistake is going up on the recoil spring when using the mildly loaded WWB. You should be going down on the recoil spring. Tune the ammo/pistol to the recoil spring by ejection distance. I would be willng to bet a month of 1SOW's pay your empties are not landing very far from your stance.

Stovepipe, now we have a "Checkmate". Stovepipes are most commonly to heavy a recoil spring or a faulty extractor, which you have already addressed, no need to fix the extractor twice.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I'm going to go on record saying that although I love the CZ75, particularly the pre-B models (I have two), the springs from those early guns all seem to have aged to the weak side. I had some of the same problems that you have had, and I changed the extractor in one gun, and extractor, mag catch, recoil , AND mag springs in both guns. Now they are both 100%. I do not know which replacement fixed which problems specifically, but the springs DID seem to be weak compared to the Wolff and CZ replacement springs. If you are still having problems, try a more solid grip. Maybe you are weak wristing it just on occasion, and that CAN affect extraction & ejection in a sporadic way.

 

[pat701]

You should have saved up $150 to $200 and gotten a Sig. For the same money you paid you could have gotten a CPO SIG