CZ...selective DA or SA?

[texas bulldog]

hey CZ fans! i know there are lots of you here, so i'm sure someone can answer what is probably a silly question...

i have been researching CZs online lately, but i wasn't quite clear on the difference between the B, BD and SA models. specifically, i wonder what CZ means when they say that the B model can be fired in "selective DA or SA mode depending on user preferences". i get what SA means. i'm assuming that it functions just like a BHP or 1911 would. and i presume that the BD models function just like a standard SIG pistol. it's the B model that i need some clarification on.

is there literally a switch somewhere on the pistol that toggles between DA and SA operation? or do they just mean that you can manually lower the hammer after cocking the pistol and the first shot will be DA. if that's the case, doesn't it seem like that would increase the risk of ND? or maybe there's something i'm missing...

my apologies for my ignorance on this subject. if someone could clarify this, that would be great.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

A CZ75 with a manual safety (suffix B) is a double action with a single action option. The safety does not decock the hammer. To put it in the double action mode for the first shot you have to pull the trigger while slowly guiding the hammer down on the chambered round.

There are also decocking lever (BD) models available. I have a personal preference for these, as the standard safety is a little too far forward on the frame and difficult to wipe off quickly.

 

[tekarra]

The B model can be fired either SA or DA. With the hammer down and a round in the chamber, the trigger pull will move the hammer full cycle to fire the round. This is similar to a DA revolver. When the slide returns to battery For the second shot and subsequent shots, the hammer remains in the cocked position until the trigger is pulled. This is the SA feature. Again similar to cocking the hammer on a DA revolver.

When the hammer is in the cocked position, the safety can be applied. This is the same as the BHP in the cocked and locked position. The safety cannot be applied if the hammer is down. The B can be safely carried in the cocked and locked or hammer down positions. Hope this helps.

 

[rbernie]

Actually, the B designation means that the pistol has a firing pin safety.

But, as noted, the 'regular' CZs have a manual safety and allow DA or SA action. The BD models use a decocker instead of a safety, but they still offer DA or SA action.

DA action is used by decocking the pistol. SA action is used by cocking the pistol. The pistol automatically cocks itself in recoil, so every shot after the first shot is SA unless you decock manually before pulling the trigger again.

It's actually easier to see with the pistol in your hand than it is to read and try to follow.

 

[texas bulldog]

thanks fellas...that clears it up. it's also pretty much what i was thinking, but it wasn't clear to me. basically, it's a DA/SA where the safety doesn't decock the pistol (as it would with a S&W 59, for instance). got it.

having not had much experience with it, i still think the idea of manually guiding the hammer downward opens you up to the possibility of your thumb slipping and the gun firing. not a statistically large chance, by any means, but still a greater chance than DAO or SA cocked and locked.

for instance...even though i feel confident that i could do it right 9999 times out of 10000, i would never cock my DA revolvers while loaded only to lower the hammer manually. am i wrong to think that there is at least a slight increase in the chance of ND by doing so? i mean...if there's no chance of it happening, why even invent a decocker, right?

feel free to convince me otherwise...

 

[rbernie]

It just takes practice. And the decocker means that you cannot carry the pistol with the hammer cocked and the safety on (since the decocker replaces the safety). This means that you cannot shoot the first shot SA without manually cocking the hammer.

 

[BlindJustice]

I have a CZ 75B - it has a frame mounted thumb safety like as you
stated, the 1911 or Browning Hi Power. So after inserting a magazine
racking the slide to chamber a round, the hammer is cocked and Condition
Zero. Then you have two options, employ the thum safety and carry
COndition One, Cocked & Locked or a Manual dropping of the hammer
to the 'safety' notch.

THe method I employ to manually drop the hammer
NO DEVIATIONS ARE PERMITTED.
* place LH index finger so the fleshy side is against the hammer,
finger nail toward the firing pin i.e. your palm toward you
* pull the trigger to relase the hammer, and get your trigger
finger OFF the Trigger as the hammer comes forward and
your LH index finger has it under control
* the trigger has come forward because your TRIGGER FINGER
is OFF THE TRIGGER
* Rotate your LH palm down and lift the index finger - the
hammer will go forward and stop in the "safety" notch about a
quarter cock actually, and the gun is in Double Action or
DA for the first shot. SUbsequent shots will be Single Action
a shorter distance of trigger pull, if you want to pause in
firing you can employ the thumb activated safety.


With a 75BD the mechanics are changed inside the lever that was
the thumb safety is now the Decocker.

PRactice ad inifitum and confidnce in knowing the manual
of arms of your weapon is a requirement.

Randall - I'm an old school 1911 guy/ ex-USN

 

[BlindJustice]

Texas Bulldog

In order to understand the variations in the CZ 75 and variants a bit of
history on semi-autos is required. CZ offers these variants in order to
offer models in whatever buyers want/feel comforable with in operation of
thier handguns most likely because of prior experience or inexperience.

The first Double Action (DA) then Single Action (SA) Semi-Auto pistol that
changes mode of operation from DA for first shot to SA for subsequent shots was the Walther PP ( later variants in terms of size and barrel/slide size
include the PPK and PPK/S) a low pressure Blow Back semi atuo intorduced
in 1929. Walther followed up with the same theme but a different lock up for the higher pressure 9mm Prarabellum aka 9mm Luger with the Walter P-38.
Both pistols have a slide mounted decocker/safety that lowers the hammer
via it's operation if the hammer is cocked for SA release. If the hammer is already dropped the decocker/safety can be moved in the opposite direction
empoloying it as being on 'safe.' This is unlike later designs like the
SIg, but like the Beretta 92 which is unique being the only weapon that followed the P-38 in it's wedge lockup for the barrel/slide.

THe S&W 39 and 59 have the decocker like the SIg and other DA/SA
designs.

The CZ 75B came along in 1975 following a common european convention
of naming the omodel for it's year of introduction to the civilian market or
adoption by the military. It has the frame mounted safety but requires the
manual drop of the hammer. It was a time where in the USA the only other high capacity 9mm luger chamered semi-autos readily available were the S&W 39 or 59. So, it was faimiliar to many service men who had carried the 1911 with it's SA Only operation.

In the early 90s CZ added a firing pin block that disables or blocks the firing pin from moving UNLESS THE TRIGGER HAS BEEN PULLED. This is similar to the 80 series 1911 but different mechanical due to the internals and differences in an SAO vs DA/SA. It is a safety feature but not operator
controlled.

As the fall of communism opened up the western market CZ added the BD Decocker model to I suppose offer a model similar to the various designs
SIg-Sauer was coming out with in the P2xx line. LEO and Military orgs trust mechanical levers and orders in training liking the deocker lever for the lowest common denominator - inexperienced or casual users.

SA only - operators who want the same trigger pull every shot like the
1911 or BHP. but why not go with both worlds in the 75B ? only one
around that offers it. and I already outlined how to drop the hammer and as long as you keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, as well as keeping
your bugger hook off the trigger when it's not supposed to be there
well, there yah go.

I'm not just a fan of a CZ 75B, I own one, as well as a 1911 - carried one in the USN, but cut my teeth as a teen with a S&W revolver - know your platforms no safety on a DA/SA revolver eh? and deocking is a cowboy
thumb job.... hah!

Randall