cz75 vs baby eagle 9 vs ar 24 helppp
- Thread starter gunflask
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Look at the location of the safeties. With the CZ (in a non-decocker model), you can take your grip with a ride-the-safety approach, since it is frame-mounted. For someone coming from Glocks, that will reduce the chances of you failing to un-safe the weapon, especially under stress. I think the Baby Eagle has it on the slide, which means a separate manipulation. I'm unsure about the safety location on the Armalite.
sirgilligan
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- 895
I have the CZ 85 and it is my current range gun. It is excellent. My primary pistol is a Browning Hi-Power, so I shoot the CZ as if it were a single action weapon while I am at the range.
Since you want steel and it will be home defense as well I can say I would feel comfortable with the CZ in that role.
I personally get my defense weapons setup, broke-in, and running with a particular ammo and then I leave them that way and shoot them occasionally.
For a range gun I am not worried that it has 2000 rounds in it and the springs might be getting near to replacing and that this one stupid mag sometimes causes failures, etc, etc.
I chose the CZ over a Baby DE just because it is more common in my area.
10 rounds 10 yards two hand free standing:
And at 15 yards:
The CZ 85 is extremely mechanically accurate and it allows me to shoot it well enough to deliver quality practical accuracy.
I wish I new something about the AR pistol but I do not.
Since you want steel and it will be home defense as well I can say I would feel comfortable with the CZ in that role.
I personally get my defense weapons setup, broke-in, and running with a particular ammo and then I leave them that way and shoot them occasionally.
For a range gun I am not worried that it has 2000 rounds in it and the springs might be getting near to replacing and that this one stupid mag sometimes causes failures, etc, etc.
I chose the CZ over a Baby DE just because it is more common in my area.
10 rounds 10 yards two hand free standing:
And at 15 yards:
The CZ 85 is extremely mechanically accurate and it allows me to shoot it well enough to deliver quality practical accuracy.
I wish I new something about the AR pistol but I do not.
yenningcomity
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- Oct 29, 2009
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- 26
I had a baby eagle (beagle?) in 9mm. It was a tank. Very heavy, a hoot to shoot. It was accurate and reliable. I liked the ergonomics and it ate anything it was given. Never gave me any trouble.
I ended up selling it because of two reasons. One is that as an sd weapon my other half would forget the safety and if it jammed it would have been useless to her. For that reason I like revolvers.
The other was that as a range toy, I disliked the hi cap mags and was too cheap to buy others. Silly reason i know, but when I was at the range I kept thinking it was empty. It always felt like the mag would never empty. A very nice feature if I was in a gunfight, but not something I want when i am shooting paper.
I ended up selling it because of two reasons. One is that as an sd weapon my other half would forget the safety and if it jammed it would have been useless to her. For that reason I like revolvers.
The other was that as a range toy, I disliked the hi cap mags and was too cheap to buy others. Silly reason i know, but when I was at the range I kept thinking it was empty. It always felt like the mag would never empty. A very nice feature if I was in a gunfight, but not something I want when i am shooting paper.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Folks who like the CZ, typically love the Baby Eagles, depending on the model and the position of the safety. The AR24 may be a good gun, based on the CZ design, but it's arguably too new to try. I wouldn't go there, not yet.
A used Witness would be a good choice as well, as all of the non-Turkish-made CZ near clones use the Tanfoglio frames and many components. A "small-frame" witness is typically trouble-free, and often have better triggers than a CZ. (I've had several of each maker's guns.)
A CZ will give you good service and you can get them worked on by CZ without a lot of hassles -- even if you're not the original owner. Getting service for any of the others may be a problem.
A used Witness would be a good choice as well, as all of the non-Turkish-made CZ near clones use the Tanfoglio frames and many components. A "small-frame" witness is typically trouble-free, and often have better triggers than a CZ. (I've had several of each maker's guns.)
A CZ will give you good service and you can get them worked on by CZ without a lot of hassles -- even if you're not the original owner. Getting service for any of the others may be a problem.
all three are solid,well made pistols but there are differences.
balance: the standard cz75b/bd and ar-24 balance in the hand about the same. when fully loaded,these two are basically centrally balanced which some really like.
the MR BDE is different. it will have a balance a bit more bias towards the muzzle end. for some,this will make it better for faster,well aimed follow up shots and it should give better stability horizontally. in this respect it's similar to a cz sp-01,which is part of why that model is popular for some competitors.
your call.
grip: of the three,in my hands,the ar-24 feels the best. it's basically the same grip as the cz but it has the improvement that tanfoglio designed of having a deeper radius cut for the webbing of your hand. the side rubber grip panels(first ones used to be wood in black) are also one of the best i've ever felt on these kinds of pistols. it fills perfectly the void in the center of your hand and i like how it slims down towards the top and gives a thumb shelf too. the cz has this too but not as good as the ar-24 imo.
if you have smaller hands,forget about it,the MR DBE will be the winner for you.
both the ar-24 and the MR BDE will help you reach the DA pull a little bit better than the cz,because of the grip and the shape of the trigger. they will both also help you get a higher grip if that matters to you.
trigger: out of the box both the ar-24 and MR BDE have triggers that are a little better than the cz75b/bd. i felt the ar-24 had a bit better DA pull but the MR BDE a better SA pull. you can do a trigger job yourself on any of the three but both the MR BDE and ar-24 have a tanfoglio designed FPB that works with you insted of against you. both are also a bit easier to break down all the way. internally,the ar-24 is like a modern tanfoglio and the MR BDE is like the older tanfoglio ta-90 or there about,with the hammer spring along the back strap and safety/decocker on slide.
quality: all three are great quality but the MR BDE really lets you know you have a solid piece of steel in your hand. it weighs more and would be the best one if you had to pistol-whip someone for SD. the ar-24 has a forged,milled frame that the other two don't have and also has tighter clearances which was specifically requested by mark westrom(armalite) from sarsilmaz. i believe even many of the smaller parts on the ar-24 are forged too(if this matters to you,opinions vary),kind of like old-world craftmenship but with modern CNC machinery(mostly german and italian from my understanding).
your call.
after-market support: cz wins hands down without doubt,next the MR BDE,..last and certainly least the ar-24.
your call,you may not want anything for it anyway,..or you may want everything.
internet darling: cz wins here.
don't forget your manual-of-arms preference. if your coming of a 1911,you may prefer the cz75b or ar-24,..coming of a beretta 92fs you may prefer the MR BDE,..coming of decocker-only like most sigs you may prefer the cz75bd(a safety/decocker can work here too,just one extra move,turn safety off and GTG).
i don't think you can loose with any three as long as it works well for you but if you want,lets say,night sights or most anything else for the ar-24,good luck with that. i'm sure there're holsters that will work though.
hope this helps.
balance: the standard cz75b/bd and ar-24 balance in the hand about the same. when fully loaded,these two are basically centrally balanced which some really like.
the MR BDE is different. it will have a balance a bit more bias towards the muzzle end. for some,this will make it better for faster,well aimed follow up shots and it should give better stability horizontally. in this respect it's similar to a cz sp-01,which is part of why that model is popular for some competitors.
your call.
grip: of the three,in my hands,the ar-24 feels the best. it's basically the same grip as the cz but it has the improvement that tanfoglio designed of having a deeper radius cut for the webbing of your hand. the side rubber grip panels(first ones used to be wood in black) are also one of the best i've ever felt on these kinds of pistols. it fills perfectly the void in the center of your hand and i like how it slims down towards the top and gives a thumb shelf too. the cz has this too but not as good as the ar-24 imo.
if you have smaller hands,forget about it,the MR DBE will be the winner for you.
both the ar-24 and the MR BDE will help you reach the DA pull a little bit better than the cz,because of the grip and the shape of the trigger. they will both also help you get a higher grip if that matters to you.
trigger: out of the box both the ar-24 and MR BDE have triggers that are a little better than the cz75b/bd. i felt the ar-24 had a bit better DA pull but the MR BDE a better SA pull. you can do a trigger job yourself on any of the three but both the MR BDE and ar-24 have a tanfoglio designed FPB that works with you insted of against you. both are also a bit easier to break down all the way. internally,the ar-24 is like a modern tanfoglio and the MR BDE is like the older tanfoglio ta-90 or there about,with the hammer spring along the back strap and safety/decocker on slide.
quality: all three are great quality but the MR BDE really lets you know you have a solid piece of steel in your hand. it weighs more and would be the best one if you had to pistol-whip someone for SD. the ar-24 has a forged,milled frame that the other two don't have and also has tighter clearances which was specifically requested by mark westrom(armalite) from sarsilmaz. i believe even many of the smaller parts on the ar-24 are forged too(if this matters to you,opinions vary),kind of like old-world craftmenship but with modern CNC machinery(mostly german and italian from my understanding).
your call.
after-market support: cz wins hands down without doubt,next the MR BDE,..last and certainly least the ar-24.
your call,you may not want anything for it anyway,..or you may want everything.
internet darling: cz wins here.
don't forget your manual-of-arms preference. if your coming of a 1911,you may prefer the cz75b or ar-24,..coming of a beretta 92fs you may prefer the MR BDE,..coming of decocker-only like most sigs you may prefer the cz75bd(a safety/decocker can work here too,just one extra move,turn safety off and GTG).
i don't think you can loose with any three as long as it works well for you but if you want,lets say,night sights or most anything else for the ar-24,good luck with that. i'm sure there're holsters that will work though.
hope this helps.
greyling22
Member
in terns of fit and finish, the ar24 is probably the best built of them, followed up by the cz, BE, and witness. (yes, I am aware the AR is turkish. I stand by my opinion) The baby eagles looks the best with the full length dust cover. CZ's will have the best customer support, witness can do a caliber swap.
personally I'm a fan the the witness elite line of guns. Better triggers make better range guns.
personally I'm a fan the the witness elite line of guns. Better triggers make better range guns.
rayatphonix
Member
I currently have all three. The BE with slide mounted decocker is considerably different than the others and you ought to see if you like it. If so I'd select either that or the Armalite. If you could swing the SP 01 I'd go that way as I greatly prefer it over the other three
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BCRider
Member
Priler's post about selecting based on what you're already used to seems like strongly good advise.
As an example I came into owning a Beretta 92fs later in my shooting. When using it in IDPA matches the lack of familiarity with the decocker/safety tripped me up on one occasion where I failed to return the lever to "fire" after decocking in prep for holstering. My first shot attempt wasn't just the "loud click", it was the "sounds of silence" with no feel to the trigger at all. My first thought was that I'd broken the gun, then I remembered the decocker/safety thing.
Messing up like this in a match is one thing. Doing the same in a home SD situation is a whole other matter. So as per priler's post I'd go with which ever seems the more natural to use. Or go with the idea of decocking and having your first shot in DA mode. Which may not be a bad option in any event. A DA first shot gives you that last split second to know if you're aiming at the right thing or not and is less likely to go off if merely startled. And being a DA first shot and you being a Glock user the longer and heavier trigger shouldn't bother you.
If this sounds good then a decocker style would be a good way to go just so you avoid the whole issue of lowering the hammer by hand on a live round.
Although there again much practice at a range can make this as safe as using a decocker. My match guns for Production and SSP are both CZ's and I've gotten very good at lowering the hammer during "load and make ready" and in practice for the same. I do very little practice shooting where I don't lower the hammer and shoot my first round as DA. In fact I often practice my draw and fire drill of lowering the hammer, holster then draw and fire two, repeat.
As an example I came into owning a Beretta 92fs later in my shooting. When using it in IDPA matches the lack of familiarity with the decocker/safety tripped me up on one occasion where I failed to return the lever to "fire" after decocking in prep for holstering. My first shot attempt wasn't just the "loud click", it was the "sounds of silence" with no feel to the trigger at all. My first thought was that I'd broken the gun, then I remembered the decocker/safety thing.
Messing up like this in a match is one thing. Doing the same in a home SD situation is a whole other matter. So as per priler's post I'd go with which ever seems the more natural to use. Or go with the idea of decocking and having your first shot in DA mode. Which may not be a bad option in any event. A DA first shot gives you that last split second to know if you're aiming at the right thing or not and is less likely to go off if merely startled. And being a DA first shot and you being a Glock user the longer and heavier trigger shouldn't bother you.
If this sounds good then a decocker style would be a good way to go just so you avoid the whole issue of lowering the hammer by hand on a live round.
Although there again much practice at a range can make this as safe as using a decocker. My match guns for Production and SSP are both CZ's and I've gotten very good at lowering the hammer during "load and make ready" and in practice for the same. I do very little practice shooting where I don't lower the hammer and shoot my first round as DA. In fact I often practice my draw and fire drill of lowering the hammer, holster then draw and fire two, repeat.
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