DAO semi-auto vs. revolver

[Old Kinderhook]

I'm new to handguns, so allow me to offer my apology in advance if this is a stupid question.

What is the advantage, if any, of a DAO semi-auto over a revolver?

Is it just potential magazine capacity and ease of reload?

I'm asking because DAO on a semi-auto seems to remove the most attractive aspect of the technology -- recoil re-cocking the hammer to provide an easier trigger pull.

 

[gearhead]

That's about it. You trade off a bit of reliability for more capacity and simpler reloading (if you have a spare magazine on you).

DAO pistols are considered by some to be good self-defense pistols because every trigger pull is the same and because you don't have to manually decock after chambering a round. Lots of Law Enforcement agencies prefer DAO for their duty handguns for those reasons.

 

[Nushif]

Is it just potential magazine capacity and ease of reload?

Pretty much.

 

[Old Kinderhook]

This came up because I am considering purchasing a former state police 96D. It made me wonder why the agency bothered switching from revolvers if they were just moving to DAO semi-auto.

 

[GLShooter]

They hold more rounds for one. They , many times, have no safeties to worry about. They are simple and once you learn to put the bullets in the magazine pointy side forward they are not hard to load.

The Federal Bureau of Prisons went from Model 10's to the Ruger DAO autos and the new employees were easy to teach. WE also had less maintenance across the board with the Rugers compared to the Smith. You also have double strike capability with them.

Greg

 

[kk0g]

In addition to the obvious disparity in capacity and speed of reloading, pistols lack a cylinder giving them a thinner profile making concealment and carrying them easier and more comfortable - especially in an IWB holster.

 

[mr.trooper]

DAO on a semi-auto seems to remove the most attractive aspect of the technology

Well... there is that minor thing where they automatically load and extract cartridges.

 

[9mmepiphany]

What is the advantage, if any, of a DAO semi-auto over a revolver?

Is it just potential magazine capacity and ease of reload?

I'm asking because DAO on a semi-auto seems to remove the most attractive aspect of the technology -- recoil re-cocking the hammer to provide an easier trigger pull.

I started in LE back in the days of the revolver and was there for the transition to the semi-auto pistol. I should add that I switched to a 1911 before the department went to a DA/SA semi-auto and carried a DA/SA for most of my career.

1. The semi-auto pistol offers at least double (12-15) the capacity of the common revolvers (discounting the 8rd S&W 627)
2. It is easier to teach a reload with a magazine (it isn't always faster, depending on the skill of the operator...we tested it with money on the line)
3. It is easier to reload in the dark ( a highly desirable skill when you work at night or inside dark buildings)
4. It usually has better indexing due to it's grip shape
5. It allows a better grip to manage recoil and muzzle flip (it lacks a cylinder gap)
6. Stoppages are easier to clear

The advantage of a DAO semi-auto over a revolver is that it commonly has a shorter reset, which allows faster recovery between accurate shots.

The DAO semi-auto does not give up accuracy or speed to the SA or SAO trigger of other semi-autos...certainly not out to 25 yards...when shot defensively. As a matter of fact, when our department went from the DA revolver to a DA/SA semi-auto, they had to shorten the maximum qualification range from 50 yards to 25 yards due to lower qualification scores

 

[Old Kinderhook]

Thank you, everyone. I am grateful for your help in sorting these things out.

And special thanks to 9mmepiphany; the thorough, concise, personal experience you offered was a standout. Well done.

 

[W.E.G.]

The only reason for selecting a DAO weapon is for liability issues when utilizing personnel with marginal training.

Yes, I know there are the Miculek's of the world who can do amazing things with specialized DAO guns that would never past muster with the agencies that require DAO.

I have no idea why a gun enthusiast, who has time and $$$ to train, would ever select a DAO gun as a first choice.

The simple reason why agencies that have DAO bent are using semi's instead of revolvers is because in the age of mass-produced polymer pistols, the price of semi's is now much less than revolvers. Moreover, there is the "trendy" element. What agency these days would deliberately equip its personnel with a sidearm that looks "old-fashioned?"

 

[MrBorland]

As a matter of fact, when our department went from the DA revolver to a DA/SA semi-auto, they had to shorten the maximum qualification range from 50 yards to 25 yards due to lower qualification scores

I've not shot a lot of them, but the DAO semi-autos I've shot had lighter trigger pulls than a DA revolver. I suppose it's because the revolver trigger not only cocks the hammer, but pushes the cylinder around, as well.

A revolver's DA pull weight seems normal to me, but those who don't shoot revolvers often seem downright shocked by it. And for many, the heavier pull compromises trigger control, particularly as speed increases. I'm guessing then, that, all else being equal, learning to shoot a DAO semi-auto fast and accurately comes quicker to most if their alternative is a revolver.

 

[Rexster]

W.E.G., I must respectfully disagree with the liability angle. Some PD admins certainly do see DAO as a lesser-liability thing, but liability is not the "only" reason to choose DAO.

I work for a PD that allows both DA/SA and DAK (a form of DAO) SIG pistols, and I chose DAK for myself, voting with my wallet, as we must buy our own. (Other pistols are also allowed, de-cockers and the hybrids such as Glock, S&W M&P, and XD.) The DAK was embraced first by the narc raid team guys, the best shooters, as a whole, within our agency. Believe me, these top shooters, and I, a less-than-top, but certainly better-than-average shooter, did NOT choose DAK for liability, but purely for performance. If a new future chief ever decides to allows us to revert to the older policy, that included the use of 1911 pistols for on-duty use, I won't switch back.

Liability has NOTHING to do with why I choose to use a form of DAK. I choose to use this system, and I am no Miculek.

I was actually a bit of a rebel, in 2004, when I started using DAK, because there were firearm instructor supervisors who refused to allow us to qual with DAK SIGs; policy merely stated SIG P229, but these supervisors interpreted it to mean only the original DA/SA version. The narc raid guys qual under their own supervisors, so they did not have to deal with the same range instructor supervisors I do. In 2007, the firearms policy was amended to specifically allow DAK, so now I can qual any time, without having to avoid any supervisors. (Our training/qual range runs 24 hours a day, five days a week; we are a BIG agency.)

DAK is not the only DAO I use, or have used. I loved my S&W Model 3953, which is now with a dear friend for as long as she wants to keep it. When I need a micro-hideout pistol, I have a wonderful Seecamp LWS-32. DAO can indeed be a choice that is not based on liability.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have no idea why a gun enthusiast, who has time and $$$ to train, would ever select a DAO gun as a first choice.

Two reasons:
1. It is more tempting to try to make a shot go off as the sights are aligned on target with the shorter trigger press of a SA trigger.
2. It is easier to train a shooter to not snap a trigger back in DA than in SA...there is more tactile feedback from the trigger

With the limited training budgets of most LEAs, it makes more sense to train to one trigger system and it is easier to train the un-trained and not especially motived to continue to train, with a light Sig DAK or H&K LEM system

What some traditional shooters don't understand is that the DAO and SA systems are not run the same way when shot at speed. One could almost say that they are run in almost opposite ways. With a SA trigger, you have your trigger ready and are waiting for your sights to land on the intended target. With a DAO trigger, you are running your trigger stroke and trying to get the sights onto the each followup target

 

[neilin]

I prefer a single action semi-auto pistol. However, if my choice had to be between a double action semi-auto and revolver, I would pick a Smith and Wesson, Colt, or Ruger revolver.

 

[rich642z]

same as neilin said. i prefer revolvers.

 

[GLShooter]

I've shot revolvers since I started competing and done well with them. I prefer a single action in my autos ala 1911 when I shot an auto. I used DAO Rugers in the BOP and taught with DAO/SA Smiths and SIG'S. They brought in some Glocks for our SORT team that I was on besides the SIG's.

I went to the Glock because I have never liked the DAO/SA transition of the others.I would have been just as happy with a revolver but then I shot more by myself in a year then the entire 14 man team did in a year as a group.

Greg

 

[Rexster]

I think some folks believe that a DA shooter waits for the perfect sight picture, then suddenly hauls back on the trigger. At advanced levels, this is NOT true. There is something dynamic occurring DURING a DA trigger pull, a refinement of the sight picture, and a steadying effect as the trigger becomes another point of contact to support the weapon, increasing the steadiness of the weapon and sight picture.

Ernest Langdon wrote an article, "Fear Not the DA Shot," which is probably still available on-line if one searches.

To be clear, I started handgunning with a 1911, and understand SA fire quite well, too. A parallel situation would be knowing how to both drive a car and ride a motorcycle. The principles of guidance and braking are different, but both types of vehicles will get you down the road efficiently.

 

[9mmepiphany]

That is a very good article...I'm sure it is still on-line somewhere.

I like the automotive analogy, I liken being able correctly manage both a DA and SA trigger to being able to drive a manual transmission whereas only being able to shoot a SA or DAO handgun well like driving a automatic transmission...it takes a bit more skill and training

 

[NG VI]

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Fear-Not-Double-Action-t90596.html

Printed in what appears to be it's entirety over there.

I think I appreciate DAO pistols more now than I ever used to, I think I do better with the constant focus on the sights and emphasis on smooth trigger work.

 

[obiwan1]

My agency went DAO about 15 yrs ago. I like the idea of no safeties/decockers to remember/forget. Just aim and stroke. As not to create problems with muscle memory, I chose to go all DAO for my carry guns. Same manual of arms with all carry guns.
Over the years, I have MANY thousand rounds downrange with 1911s, SA/DA autos, SA and SA/DA revolvers. I still shoot them, but the majority of my shooting, and especially defensive training, is DAO.

 

[Cop Bob]

You Got it..........

For Me...
I grew up with revolvers... DA was second nature to me.

I carried a 96D for the last 8 or 9 years I was on the streets, It was a natural transition for me.. I now own about three of them (see them cheap at $300 at guns shows all the time)

The 40 S&W is a good cartridge, the triggers are usually pretty good, very dependable, reliable gun, and I can generally hit what I point it at.. easy reload, a few more rounds in the chute.. for me, it's a win-win...