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Debate: Bush & Kerry Suck On Guns(!)

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Kerry has voted 100% in accordance with the Brady Campaign on gun issues. Every vote he has cast since 1991 followed the Brady line exactly.

Kerry has voted to kill CMP twice.

Kerry co-sponsored a bill to extend the ban on semi-autos to practically all semi-autos ever made (including the Remington 11-87 he was given by the mine union).

Will Bush sign legislation repealing gun laws? Sure looks like he will since he has in his first term and seems unwilling to veto. Not only that but with a chance to pick up as many as four seats in the Senate (based on last polling), he may get the chance to sign some more repeals.

Will Kerry sign legislation repealing gun laws? Seems unlikely since he has a whole list of new gun laws he thinks we need and has never acted against the Brady Campaign once despite being a politician who is more than willing to talk out of both sides of his mouth.

Is there any realistic chance that any third party candidate with a better stance on guns will get elected? No, there is no realistic chance. The LP has never polled higher than 1.1% in any national election since 1972. They haven't polled as high as 1.1% since 1980. The Constitution Party is so far below that number that the voting of the LP might as well be birds in the sky to them.

Will voting for a third-party "Send a message" to the Republicans? Well, assuming that Kerry wins AND the pro-liberty parties manage to accumulate more votes than the socialist parties (in 2000 they were beaten 3-1 by socialist party votes), then MAYBE it will send a message.

Of course then you have to wonder whether the message you send will be the same one the Republicans receive. Will they hear "Socialists have more votes and are easier to get on our side"? "No point in fighting gun control as we don't get votes for opposing it"? "I bet we can move to the left and pick up disappointed centrist Dems easier than we can get those cranky old bastards"? or "Maybe we should be more libertarian"?

Now if you think that risking the election of Kerry is worth the off-chance that you send a message to the Republican party and they actually recieve the message as you intended to send it, then all I can say is we disagree about the relative risks to our freedom involved and the proposed benefits from it.
 
GW is far from perfect, but Kerry is a nightmare. He makes Gore look pro-gun. Kerry voted to make it a federal felony crime to put any extra powder in a .30-30!! There shouldn't even be a question about who's worse. The man would be an unspeakable nightmare for the RKBA. Indeed I fully expect he'd target anti-terrorism efforts at you and me the second he came into office.
 
AMEN buzz!

After having spent the ENTIRE Clinton Presidency on the front lines fighting gun control--meet my ulcer!--I am simply stunned that any true friend of the Second Amendment would even CONSIDER not voting for George Bush!

Is he One Of Us? No.

Is he the best of all conceivable candidates? Absolutely not.

Is he better than the alternative? OPEN YOUR EYES, PEOPLE!

It doesn't mattter whether Bush meets some private "litmus tests." He HAS delivered the freight...Ashcroft's support of RKBA, an ending of federally supported antigun lawsuits, standing aside and letting the Ban sunset... We've been able to take back a lot of ground. But we need time to consolidate our winnings.

There have been private conversations among those of us who will be BACK on the front lines if Kerry--the single most antigun candidate to EVER run for high office--is elected. Those contingency conversations make me, quite literally, sick to my stomach.

It's time to stand up for the Second Amendment! Even if you have to hold your nose to do it, pull the lever for Bush.

mb
 
A little cartoon for those who are anti third party

From Toothpaste for Dinner:
voting_logic.bmp
 
Bush does not impress me
Kerry scares the hell out of me
No one else has even a remote chance of winning this election.
So, if it makes you feel better, VOTE AGAINST KERRY!

If all of the gun owners voted for Bush, not only would it be a landslide victory, but the lesson would be remembered well into the future. This would have obvious implications on future platforms even if the politicos were not firmly with us in ideology.
 
After having spent the ENTIRE Clinton Presidency on the front lines fighting gun control--meet my ulcer!--I am simply stunned that any true friend of the Second Amendment would even CONSIDER not voting for George Bush!

Is he One Of Us? No.

Is he the best of all conceivable candidates? Absolutely not.

Is he better than the alternative? OPEN YOUR EYES, PEOPLE!

It doesn't mattter whether Bush meets some private "litmus tests." He HAS delivered the freight...Ashcroft's support of RKBA, an ending of federally supported antigun lawsuits, standing aside and letting the Ban sunset... We've been able to take back a lot of ground. But we need time to consolidate our winnings.
Definitely a wise line of thought, sir.

I agree completely.
 
I was a little wishy washy on whether or not I was going to vote for Bush or a third party candidate. Now I'm sure Bush will not get my vote. - ktulu

I forgot that some watch the debates looking for an excuse to vote third party. In some States, clearly Democratic, it would make no difference. In others that are close it could help elect Kerry, taking a vote away from Bush, who has always appeared the better electable candidate for gun owners.
 
If you're at all inclined towards libertarian politics, you didn't need to be looking for an excuse to vote third party, to find it last night. Bush hasn't just made peace with the leviathan, he's dating it. :barf: I wonder if anybody will still be able to utter the words, "party of limited government" without breaking down and laughing, after this administration is through?
 
Sadly, if they were to take more radical views either way it will only appeal to the base. By riding the fence they satisfy neither side.
 
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