Deer Hunting with cap/ball Revolvers

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PowderBurn,

Yup, you're right on the Wisconsin laws. I wasn't talking about the muzzleloading season but the regular gun season. Just forgot to mention that, LOL. Anyway, got my .300 Win Mag. Ruger stainless synthetic all zeroed in and have finally got on some fantastic private land this year. Had my name on the waiting list for a few years. The Ruger will put 3 holes on a quarter at 100 yds. all day long with most any ammo I feed it. It's one in a million. I used to handload for all my rifles to get a group I liked but gave it up when I couldn't improve on factory loads with this gun. The land owners in this whole area do not shoot small bucks. The size of the bucks taken off this property in the last couple of years would knock your socks off. It's a marsh with high ground oak woods and open fields beyond that. My brother said if you don't see 75 deer opening day you've had a bad year and those aren't all does. If it sounds like I'm primed for this year, you're right!
 
I spent this afternoon at my club with several different pieces.
I shot a slug gun, a Pre-war Model 70 and my Thompson Center Hawkin.
I also shot about 50 rounds through my Old Army.
I truly love this pistol and I'm looking forward to some squirrel shooting with it.
Respectfully, Zeke
 
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warbirdlover said:
Well, on the killing power of these guns, how did anyone win a gunfight with them if they didn't kill quickly?
Click to expand...

Killing quickly wasnt the point... it was to damage the other force as much as possible through hot fights, manuvering cold conditions, catching good shooting points... or even ramming them head on. Every wounded soldier is a lesser statistcal threat than a healthy well fed soldier. It was attrician, more people and gear you had, the farther you are ahead. Not to mention that these folks practically lined up to be shot.

In the 7th grade, we demonstrated warfare with a lot of water balloons and two regular line formations... wet day it was
 
Got mine

I couldn't wait until this years deer season. I've shot deer using 12g slugs
all the way down to a 65gr .222. Never shot a deer twice, always got them
on the first shot. Well last Sat. (I'll admidt it was only 25yds) I had my oppurtunity and almost 2nd guessed myself out of it. One shot straight through the heart with a Pietta .44 1858 SS. 30gr pyrodex pellet, .454 ball,
TC lube, and Remington #10 caps. It ran 15 yds and droped dead. The only
thing is There was no blood trail, no exit wound, the ball stayed in the chest
cavity after exiting the heart. I would gladly do it again, but I would never
shoot beyond 30 yards with it. Good hunting
 
Well, I was going to pass, but I will jump in here for a moment I guess. I'm not telling anyone what they should do, shouldn't do, can do or cannot do. Sometimes I hunt deer with a .45 inline, but lot's of times I hunt whitetails with a .44Walker. The sights take some getting used to and the Walker has a tendency to climb. (I mean the ball as it head's downrange) I have hit bucks with the Walker and seen them jump almost straight up for what looked like almost ten feet and fall stone dead. I have hit bucks straight on in the chest and knocked them backwards a good 6 feet. The ball penetrated damned near from their chest to their ******* and the wound channel was horrendous.... Understand here now, although I belong to the NRA and whatnot, I am NOT a sportsman. I hunt for meat. I eat what I kill. I have at least a little bit of common sense. No way would I consider shooting 'from mountain to mountain so to speak' with a Walker. I keep a hunting license because I'm hoping at least the money I pay for it help's to do some good. I think it does because when I was a kid growing up in North Alabama, there were no deer. There just wasn't any. Now there's so many of them they come into your back yard and eat your garden. Open the door and they just stand there and look at you...Of course people killed deer (and lot's of other stuff) with a .36. That was 'bout the heaviest thing they had until they began opening up the western half of this country and ol' Mr. Hawken or Mr. Sharps or one of them ol' boys got off their ass and got busy....Anyway, ya'll know anybody with the sense God gave a piss ant that's want's to stand 100 yards in front of a Walker loaded up with a heavy powder charge when it goes off?..Didn't think so...In heavy brush that Walker is idea. Hand gun, easy to manuever, heavy slow moving round that will 'punch through the brush', and plenty of stopping/knock down power.I guarantee you; you get a good solid lick on his ass with that Walker he ain't going anywhere but down.,I promise ya'll I don't mean to sound like a smart-ass and I'm not, but I mean, Hey! co'mon here! People have been killing large game animals for supposedly thousands of years with a bow and a couple of slender little sticks, and I'm talking about before the days of the compounds and what have you. I think somebody here maybe need's to hold a seance and have a little chat with David Crockett and Daniel Boone and a few more of those ol' boys. Maybe talk to Robin Hood and Friar Tucker and them to. I understand that just using a bow and a couple of those slender sticks they put a hell of a dent in the deer population of Sherwood Forest...Well anyway, the Walker is NOT a rifle by any means, but for deer, wild hogs, etc, it has ALWAYS served me well. Like I said, I had a bad problem with the sights when I first started with it (tendency to shoot way over the target) but over time I got that pretty well worked out...I can't say a word one way or the other about the 'regular' .44 cap and balls. Never used one of them. I do have a .44 Cattleman's Carbine (blackpowder) but I'vd never really shot anything with it except for tin cans and one rattlesnake. It blew the snake's head clean off and that's basically all I expected and wanted it to do. It is EXTREMELY accurate after you get the sights set on it, I know that. Thought about squirrel hunting with it but it seem's to me too much like 'overkill'. Probably damage too much of the meat to. Probably wouldn't be anything left but maybe one front leg and the tail after that .44 hit it. I think it's made by Uberti. I know my Walker is. I'vd got a Colt 1849 Pocket .31 with a four inch barrel made by Uberti that I hunt squirrels with and rabbits sometimes and stuff like that. It does a pretty good job. It always does what it's supposed to do; it's me that misses the shot now and then, not the gun. Hell, I'm starting to ramble here. Let me close. Just wanted to state where I stand. Not trying to convince anyone of anything or talk anyone into anything..Later ya'll..
 
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Personally I feel the cap and ball revolvers are a bit light for deer. With a possible exception for the Walker. And I'm not a magnum fan either. This year I'm hunting with my .44-40 loaded with XMR5744 for about 1500 fps.
But if a person has the skill to place a bullet where it needs to be, every shot, and under the spell of buck fever, and has the integrity to limit theirself to not shoot beyond their ability, then I don't have a problem with whatever firearm they choose.


Good luck to all who hunt this year.
 
The Walker was the most powerful handgun until the .357 magnum was developed.
With a 60 grain charge, I'd have no doubt you could take down a deer, bear or other larger game. If I remember correctly, the specifications for the Walker while being developed was that " it had to be powerful enough to hunt buffalo".
The Uberti Walkers are well made and tough. 60 grains of some high grade BP ( Swiss, not Goex ) would pack some serious punch!
Maybe someone can ring on who has hunted with one?
 
I had mine loaded for a hog hunt with 55 grains of FFg under a Buffalo Ball-et. Didn't get to use on on hogs, so I took it to the next cowboy action shoot. First stage was inside a cabin, shooting through a window. By the third shot I had the cabin to myself.
 
WHAT'S NEXT BULLWHIP SEASON FOR WHITETAILS? I swear to you that that was a newspaper headline in a Wisconsin newspaper 27 years ago and they were talking about new cap and ball revolver regulations. I was driving to Northern Wis.from my home in southern Ohio to pick up a horse trailer and stopped to get breakfast. The newspaper stand copy caught my eye with that headliner. I don't have a dog in this fight but this thread triggered my memory.
 
Pancho asked:
BTW, What is the maximum powder load in a Walker. Dixie lists it as 22gr. but they list all of their 44's at 22 grains.
Click to expand...

The Walker will hold close to 60 gr fffg, and it will shoot that much all day long without damage. However, you won't come very close to what you're aiming at as accuracy diminishes rapidly near 50 gr. Also, most of the powder charge will burn outside the barrel; the increase in velocity after about 45 gr is minimal as the barrel is too short to take advantage of the extra powder (even at 9 inches!).

It's a hoot, however; the very definition of a hand cannon. I've loaded mine with 55 gr under a lubed felt wad.
 
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Cap'n Ball Fer Deer

I own not 1, but 2 Ruger OLd ARMY's. I firmly feel that loaded to the hilt and a good bullet on top, the roa's are more than capable of killing whitetails at forty yards, or so...perhaps some cap and ball pistols which havent the powder capacity of say dragoons, walkers, or ruger old armys, lets be sportsmanlike and keep those shots within 25 yards to fully utilize there potential. On the other side of the coin, it was'nt that long ago when I read an article in guns&ammo by Gary James about several wild hogs being taken with ruger old armys using as much h777 they could stoke and still be able to seat a Lee 220 gr conical. I think it was around 40 gr or so. I am considering a wild pig hunt in southern Ohioi with my old armys.:evil:
 
I have a Colt 3 rd Model Dragoon. This is a big pistol, second only to the Walker in terms of powder charge. Took it shooting. With 40 grains of Black powder, and a 140 grain round ball, it has all the power of a 38 Spl. My chronograph data is as below.

Perhaps Wisconsin has allowed the use of these pistols, just to get hunters out in the woods, but in my opinion, I think a 38 Special pistol is not appropriate as a deer hunting round. Not that you cannot kill a Blue Whale with it, put right down the spout, but more likely, the poor deer is going to run off and die a suffering death.

Colt 3rd Model Dragoon


142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumetric Measured GOEX FFG RWS cap
24 July 1999 T= 99 -100 ° F

Ave Vel = 785
Std Dev = 30
ES 73
Low 741
High 814
N = 4


142 gr .454 Round Ball 40 grain Volumetric Measured GOEX FFG CCI#11 cap

24 July 1999 T= 99 -100 ° F
Ave Vel = 837
Std Dev = 18
ES 56
Low 814
High 870
N = 8
 
NOTICE!! ANYONE WHO READ'S THIS PARTICULAR POST PLEASE CALL IT TO PEOPLE'S ATTENTION WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT DEER HUNTING WITH A CAP AND BALL REVOLVER... I'm the one who typed the post about hunting deer with a .44Walker. I had mentioned in the post that I owned a .44 Cattleman's Blackpowder Carbine, and that I had only used it on tin cans and one fat ass diamondback rattler which I cooked and ate, and insinuated that I didn't know much about it's power which was also true. WELL!! A friend of mine came by today and I was telling him about this site and the posts I had made, and mentioned the part about the Carbine. He grinned and went and dug a blanket wrapped object from rhe back floorboard of his little Ford Ranger pick-up. He unrolled the blanket and it was a .44 Cattleman's Carbine just like mine. My brother had a few brand new 2x4's left over from his shed in the back yard. I GUESS they are made out of pine. He loaded up that Carbine all the way around with 30 grains of Triple Seven fffg behind .451 balls. We leaned a couple of the 2x4's up at 12 yards (I say again--12yards) from my brother's back porch. He then sat in a chair on the back porch and shot 6 times. EVERY TIME HE SHOT, HE SHOT COMPLETELY THROUGH A 2X4...YESSIR. That little Carbine shot completely through those 2x4's at 12 yards. It done it. I was standing there watching. I saw it. I know it happened, just about 2 hours ago. Just right before dark. My brother saves cans and sells them. (Mostly just to give him something to do, I think) I took 6 of those cans and carried them out across the way to what we estimated was around 60 to maybe 65 yards. He shot 6 times. He hit 6 cans, I saw it. I was there. I KNOW it happened. Anybody that dosen't believe that Blackpowder .44 Cattleman's Carbine will shoot clean through a 2x4 can try it for themselves. Now.. Can you imagine what that will do to a deer's head at around 20 to 30 yards or so? (Indeed further than that) He told me he's killed over 25 deer with that Carbine. I asked him about the range on the shots and he just sort of blew it off by saying--"Aww, Not too far. A couple of them were on out there". He said his deer hunting loads for it are 33 grains. Said he never had a problem with that load except when he first started using it and wanted to see if the gun could handle it. He said he shot it about 40 times pretty fast and that one screw started backing out just a little bit. He said he hunt's squirrel's with it but he 'barks' them. (shoot's right into the tree next to their head and it knock's them out or at least stun's them so they fall out of the tree) Well, maybe some of ya'll knew this but I think there are a lot of people who didn't. The kind of people I have read on here that take a .338 Winchester Magnum out to get a little white tail deer. I'm gonna stick with my Walker (I love that piece of iron) but I'm glad to know a little more about the carbine. I'vd NEVER doubted they would do a number on a man because that's basically what they were designed and tested for, and in my mind I have always known that, but it was still good to see anyway...Well, anyway, I do agree that a lot of people like in the War Between The States died of infection. I agree with that. But at the same time I was reading that I also knew for a damn fact that one of those .44's would kill a man's ass dead in his tracks, or blow his brains all over the damn wall behind him, be it from a Colt or a Remington. They would back then and they will today, and they will tomorrow to...Okay..
 
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Black powder handguns may be carried, but are not legal for taking deer in BP season in Washington state, or so was the case last season, for I specifically checked on that point. Always check your local regs.

I personally know a fellow in Idaho who used a 40 S&W auto pistol to kill a deer. The range was close, but the 10 mm diameter hollowpoint slug went all the way through the deer at an angle. IIRC, it penetrated over 18 inches through the "boiler room" before exiting, and the deer collapsed nearby.

An 1847 Walker can generate as much or more power than the .40 S&W.

There is a bow season, and a bow is somewhat less powerful than a C&B handgun. Point is, you must know your arms, how to use them, and when not to use them.
 
A bp handgun requires that the user be able get within incredibly short range of the animal. True Elmer Keith could do incredible long range shooting with an old SAA and bp cartridges, but how many of us actually come that close in shooting ability without the use of bipod/bench/high power handgun scope?
 
Can you kill a deer with C&B pistol ? Damn straight ! Some, like the Walker and the 1858 Remmington have more than enough power to get the job done. POF, until the appearance of the Linebaugh and its derivatives the "most powerful handgun in the world" wasn't a S&W Model 29 .44 Mag, but the Walker Colt.

Question is, do you have what it takes to make a humane kill with an antique weapon ? You've still got to stick that chunk of round ball into the deer's vitals which means holding until you've got a shot you are sure you can make because you've done it many times on the range. That means ranges of 20 or so yards - or less.

I shoot C&B wheel guns all the time. They can be remarkably accurate out to 100 yards, but won't humanely kill much more than a rabbit at that range either. If you shoot round ball range decreases exponentially with game size. For serious hunting I'd suggest a Keith bullet with a hollow base - Lyman carries the mould - in a 1:20 ratio. >MW
 
Where do you get that info? I agree, with a full load of real good BP like swiss, a Walker or Dragoon has plenty of punch to drop a deer.
A Walker was probably the only handgun that could take a 60 grain charge, even the 45 colt cartidges weren't much more than 40. I wouldn't hesitate to use my Lightning rifle or 1860 Henry to hunt deer, a good BP load and short range shot and it should work well.
Usually it's said that the Walker was the most powerful handgun until the .357 mag. I don't think it's power is very close to .44 magnum at all.
Still, round balls with 60 grains pushing them have some serious power. Some say that anything over 45 grains doesn't get consumed in short barreled guns, well, use good BP and you notice a huge difference!

•••Taken from THR archive, post by MEC••••

• Walker 60 Grains Swiss fffg 140 +or-1 grain ball
Velocity 1200 fps Energy 448 Foot pounds.

• .357 Magnum 125 Grain JHP
Velocity 1450 Energy 584 foot pounds

• .45 Colt 250 grain RNFP
Velocity 870 Energy 402 foot pounds

• .45 Colt 250 Guessed-at but unknown black powder load performance
Velocity 900 Energy 450 fps.
 
What is a Keith bullet? I'vd never heard of them. (I don't get around much) Would they shoot good out of a Walker without damaging the lands and grooves? Any information would be appreciated. Also, reckon someone like Dixie Gun Works up here in Tennessee would have them to sell? Thank you, whoever answers...Okay...
 
MillWright, I just re-read your statement. I picked up on the part about Lyman molds. I think I can talk to a product specialist like maybe at Cabela's and they will give me some lowdown on the Keith...Okay...
 
Another thing

Until I read this thread, the thought of hunting with a cap & ball never occured to me. It's like not seeing the forest for the trees. So ingrained in my brain pan is the thought of a Davey Crocket character with his Kentucky Rifle that I never gave a thought that the lowly six-gun might ever have a use for hunting.

I do not think we can do that in Illinois though, which is another reason why I never gave it any thought.

However, many moons ago I was was the range officer for a central Wisconsin Police Department. Just for laughs I brought out my .44 Lyman Remington replica and could have qualified with that, had I been able to reload really, really fast! :D

The Doc is out again. :cool:
 
We leaned a couple of the 2x4's up at 12 yards (I say again--12yards) from my brother's back porch. He then sat in a chair on the back porch and shot 6 times. EVERY TIME HE SHOT, HE SHOT COMPLETELY THROUGH A 2X4...YESSIR. That little Carbine shot completely through those 2x4's at 12 yards.
Click to expand...

Just recently I was watching a television show where the bad guy shot at the good guy with some high capacity pistol. And guess what, the good guy was behind a chair back and therefore the bullets did not penetrate!

People see this sort of rubbish, thousands of thousands of hours of this rubbish, and they believe it. In real life, bullets will shoot through chair backs.

Of course your carbine could shoot through a 2X4. I am trying to remember, but I am quite certain I have shot through 2X4's with my .22LR pistol.

There might have been a time when 2X4 were considered an appropriate tissue simulant, but times have changed. Ballistic gelatin is used now.

What I have read, is that these old 44's gave quite decent performance in ballistic gelatin, considering the low bullet mass, and low velocities of the things. However, modern bullets, with higher velocities perform better.

I do not feel confident enough of my hunting marksmanship skills to hunt with a pistol, never mind a black powder pistol. I would not hesitate in the least to use a 58 cal Musket, I know that will knock um dead, and so will my round ball .54 Renegade. I do consider the Renegade at the low end of the power spectrum.

Taken my Renegade out a number of times, only killed a squirrel with it. I see deer when squirrel hunting, I see squirrels when deer hunting.
 
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