Deer pistol
- Thread starter RKellogg
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Arkansas Paul
Member
T/C makes a single shot pistol in just about any caliber you can imagine, including the .243 Win. As far as being better, there's a lot that goes into that.
For a 50 yd shot, I'd take the .500 or .454. For a 200 yd shot, the .243 would be the correct option, and yes, with a scoped pistol in a rifle caliber, 200 yds is within range. I would love to have a T/C Encore pistol in 7mm-08.
The Savage Striker and Remington XP-100 are also available in rifle calibers. The XP-100 isn't being made anymore, but you can still find them used. I'm not sure about the Striker.
For a 50 yd shot, I'd take the .500 or .454. For a 200 yd shot, the .243 would be the correct option, and yes, with a scoped pistol in a rifle caliber, 200 yds is within range. I would love to have a T/C Encore pistol in 7mm-08.
The Savage Striker and Remington XP-100 are also available in rifle calibers. The XP-100 isn't being made anymore, but you can still find them used. I'm not sure about the Striker.
KodiakBeer
member
The problem with rifle rounds is that they need velocity to be effective. You can't get that velocity out of a short barrel. A 90 or 100 grain .243 round at 1200 fps would be like shooting a deer with a 9mm hardball, with 50% smaller frontal diameter. It wouldn't expand and would just poke a .24 caliber hole in the animal. The animal would probably die eventually, but it's going to run far away before it does.
Edited to add: Oh yeah - what those T/C guys said...
What are the barrel lengths on those?
Edited to add: Oh yeah - what those T/C guys said...
What are the barrel lengths on those?
Arkansas Paul
Member
You're going to lose some velocity going with a 15" Encore barrel, no doubt. It is not going to drop a .243 Win all the way down to 1200 fps though. I don't think 2500 fps is out of the question.
If you lost that much velocity, they wouldn't be so popular. I can get 1200 out of a .45 Colt with a 7 1/2" barrel with no trouble.
If you lost that much velocity, they wouldn't be so popular. I can get 1200 out of a .45 Colt with a 7 1/2" barrel with no trouble.
I have two T/C handcannons a Contender in .35 rem has a 12" barrel. The .308 Encore has a 15". So for the above statement of velocity. My Encore rifle in 28" .308 shoots around 2756 fps with 168 grain hornady a-max handloads. The same loads shot from my 15" barrel clip along at 2387 fps. So yes I do lose some velocity but not much. After all most of the EBR boys who brag about the accuracy of there M4 are only running a 16" barrel. Off of a bench the gun pictured above will consistantly hit a 4" clay at 250 yards. I sure can't do it off-hand but the gun is more capable than myself.
Snubshooter
Member
An Encore is about your only choice unless you use an X frame Smith. Here's my .300 ]Wby by Gary Reeder
BCRider
Member
From my own reloading I gather that most rifle powders are a lot slower burning than most pistol powders. That means that the bullet isn't really going to get up to the proper speed as Arkansa Paul suggested. So that brings you back to the classic hunting handgun calibers of .357Mag and .44Mag along with the Johnny come lately .454Casull, .460 and .500S&W. And then the BFR in .45-70 that is such a big honkin' bullet that even if it doesn't get up to a full burn velocity will still do the job because it just bludgeons its way through.
jbkebert: It's been tried before, but necked cartridges lock up revolvers too bad to be functional. Which is why you don't see full-on rifle cartridges in revolvers, barring 45-70 and similar straight-walled rifle rounds. It's been covered on this forum before, and there are plenty of people here who can explain the phenomena at play far better than I can, so I'll leave it at that. 
OP: I'm with the rest of the crowd. Necked cartridges aren't functional in a revolver, so a thompson center is going to be your best/most economical choice. Now, if you have to have something in a rifle round that will go bang more than once, you could have stumbled onto a new project. Of course, an automatic shooting a full house rifle round couldn't house its magazine in the grip... but what about, say, an ar-10 pistol? It seems to work fine with the little brother, so I don't see why it wouldn't work. The only issue is it couldn't be "made from a rifle," so you'd have to start with either a receiver you machined yourself or (and i could be drastically mistaken on this point, make sure it'd be legal before you start with anything like this) a fresh receiver that's never been built into a rifle before. I don't think I've ever seen an ar-10 pistol before, but I kind of like the concept.
OP: I'm with the rest of the crowd. Necked cartridges aren't functional in a revolver, so a thompson center is going to be your best/most economical choice. Now, if you have to have something in a rifle round that will go bang more than once, you could have stumbled onto a new project. Of course, an automatic shooting a full house rifle round couldn't house its magazine in the grip... but what about, say, an ar-10 pistol? It seems to work fine with the little brother, so I don't see why it wouldn't work. The only issue is it couldn't be "made from a rifle," so you'd have to start with either a receiver you machined yourself or (and i could be drastically mistaken on this point, make sure it'd be legal before you start with anything like this) a fresh receiver that's never been built into a rifle before. I don't think I've ever seen an ar-10 pistol before, but I kind of like the concept.
Arkansas Paul
Member
I was misunderstood. I was disagreeing with post #4 when I talked about velocity.
I was saying that yes, it's going to lose some, but will still have more than enough to get the job done.
I was saying that yes, it's going to lose some, but will still have more than enough to get the job done.
svtruth
Member
If you like .223
I have a Kel-Tec PLR in .223 delivers the slugs at 2900 fps.
That's close to rifle velocity.
I have a Kel-Tec PLR in .223 delivers the slugs at 2900 fps.
That's close to rifle velocity.
flipajig
Member
I also shoot a Tender and with my 7-30 waters barrel and my hand loads im getting 2200 fps with a 140 grn Nosler BT verry efective on deer and hogs. with the same cal and 120 grn hondady vmax 2400 fps. the 140 grn is efective out to 250 yds. and the 120 abit farther. there are other calibers out there that are getting close to 3000 fps one of them is a 6.5 x 284 with a 16 in tube. mine are all 14 or 15 in barrel my 44mag is running 1600 fps with a 200grn JHP. and i wouldnt be afraid to shoot at a deer or pig out to 100 yds with it. another great cal in a encor is a 7-08 and ive read that its efective out to 500 yds. Now just becouse the cal is capable of doing it doesnt mean that you or I can shooting a pistol at distance with a scope is verry different and takes alot of pratice to even come close to being good with one. this is my experiance and my opinon for more info go to google MOA shooting there are people who shoot 1000 yds with a SP.
gordy
Member
S&W 41 mag. it will do the job.
MachIVshooter
Member
IMO, the single shot and bolt action pistols chambered in rifle cartridges kinda defeat the purpose of handgun hunting, as they are essentially stockless rifles with slightly bobbed barrels. But to each his own. For me, the sport is in using a conventional handgun in a handgun chambering, albeit a potent one. Here in CO, very heavy 10mm or .357 Mag is minimum by law (550 ft/lbs @ 50 yards). But the larger .41 and .44 mag easily meet the criteria, and will cleanly take a deer with good shot placement at responsible ranges.
Then, of course, there are the powerhouse .454 Casull, .50 AE, .460 S&W, .500 S&W and a number of proprietary cartridges in the 1,500+ ft/lb range. These are all more than enough for deer, and suitable for elk to 100 yards or more.
For what? Grizzlies? Heavy .357 and 10mm are plenty for medium game at reasonable ranges. The venerable .44 mag has been dirt napping Bambi and bigger critters for a long time, with less than half the energy of the .460 or .500 S&W.
Not with 55 gr. ball, it doesn't. A shade over 2,600 is average. That is both advertised velocity and real world chronograph results. I've checked. 40 gr. handloads managed a little over 3,000 though.
http://kel-tec-cnc.com/plr16.htm
But .223 isn't legal for big game in many states anyway, nor are the 10 round mags the PLR comes with.
Then, of course, there are the powerhouse .454 Casull, .50 AE, .460 S&W, .500 S&W and a number of proprietary cartridges in the 1,500+ ft/lb range. These are all more than enough for deer, and suitable for elk to 100 yards or more.
For what? Grizzlies? Heavy .357 and 10mm are plenty for medium game at reasonable ranges. The venerable .44 mag has been dirt napping Bambi and bigger critters for a long time, with less than half the energy of the .460 or .500 S&W.
Not with 55 gr. ball, it doesn't. A shade over 2,600 is average. That is both advertised velocity and real world chronograph results. I've checked. 40 gr. handloads managed a little over 3,000 though.
http://kel-tec-cnc.com/plr16.htm
But .223 isn't legal for big game in many states anyway, nor are the 10 round mags the PLR comes with.
Harvey
Member
The 'perfect' deer pistol: Weatherby CFP (Compact Firing Platform) chambered in .243 Winchester.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/20730
Top it off with a Burris 2X-7X-32mm long relief scope, set it on a bipod, and you're good to go.
http://www.burrisoptics.com/handgun1.html
The rest of conversation is just oh so much blather.
Happy hunting.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/20730
Top it off with a Burris 2X-7X-32mm long relief scope, set it on a bipod, and you're good to go.
http://www.burrisoptics.com/handgun1.html
The rest of conversation is just oh so much blather.
Happy hunting.
MCgunner
Member
My .30-30 barrel 12" Contender will take any deer to 200 yards. It's topped by a 2X fixed LER scope and has taken 5 to date. I shoot a Nosler 150 ballistic tip at 2100 fps. It's pushing 1000 ft lbs at 200 yards and is sighted zero at 200, 3" high at 100.
oneounceload
member
See that XP-100 above. I have one as well in 7mmBR - If I do my part (getting harder as I get older), that 7BR will kill a pronghorn to 250 + and a mulie to at least 200. While not as versatile as the Encore or Contender, it can be rebarreled if so inclined to 7-08 or larger.
(I think that gun, legally made into a rifle with 16" barrel would make an ideal "predator gun")
In all seriousness, my one great uncle killed over 100 deer in one year during the Great Depression using a .22LR. Illegal as hell, but he did keep his family and some neighbors in meat.
My dad hunts deer with a .223 and has killed them with a 7.5" .357 revolver. I know one guy who used a .38 Special Uberti 1866 Winchester clone to get his deer last year.
Deer are not armor-plated.
Some rounds are rediculous overkill for hunting them.
My dad hunts deer with a .223 and has killed them with a 7.5" .357 revolver. I know one guy who used a .38 Special Uberti 1866 Winchester clone to get his deer last year.
Deer are not armor-plated.
Some rounds are rediculous overkill for hunting them.
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Arkansas Paul
Member
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL.
If some one wants to use a .700 Nitro Express for squirell, that's their business.
It never ceases to amaze me that so many people are so concerned about what other people hunt with. Hunt with what you want to.
Is a .300 Win Mag more gun than necessary for whitetail? Sure it is. But if someone wants to use one, it's their money and their shoulder.
I don't hunt with a magnum by the way. A .280 Rem and a .30-06 do everything I need them to do. Of course they probably kill them a little to dead and I just don't know what to look for.
If some one wants to use a .700 Nitro Express for squirell, that's their business.
It never ceases to amaze me that so many people are so concerned about what other people hunt with. Hunt with what you want to.
Is a .300 Win Mag more gun than necessary for whitetail? Sure it is. But if someone wants to use one, it's their money and their shoulder.
I don't hunt with a magnum by the way. A .280 Rem and a .30-06 do everything I need them to do. Of course they probably kill them a little to dead and I just don't know what to look for.
MachIVshooter
Member
Arkansas paul-
I don't see anyone arguing against the use of more powerful cartridges. The issue here is that some people are asserting that the powerhouse rounds are needed, when in fact, they're not.
The OP was seeking insight in this regard, and that's what we're trying to provide.
However........
With game animals intended to be eaten, and especially small game, there certainly is such a thing as overkill. Someone who shoots Bambi with a 7mm RUM at 42 yards will quickly find out why seasoned hunters are using cartridges better suited to the game size and range. Nothing like losing the whole brisket to bloodshot and bone fragments.
I don't see anyone arguing against the use of more powerful cartridges. The issue here is that some people are asserting that the powerhouse rounds are needed, when in fact, they're not.
The OP was seeking insight in this regard, and that's what we're trying to provide.
However........
With game animals intended to be eaten, and especially small game, there certainly is such a thing as overkill. Someone who shoots Bambi with a 7mm RUM at 42 yards will quickly find out why seasoned hunters are using cartridges better suited to the game size and range. Nothing like losing the whole brisket to bloodshot and bone fragments.
By definition a handgun or pistol is a gun that does not have a stock which in use does not mount to a shoulder. IE, a pistol grip without a buttstock.
The world of handgun hunting started for me back in 1976 when I took my first two handgun bucks with a Model 57 Smith and Wesson in 41 Magnum caliber. Being a competetive shooter is was natural to take up the hunting challange and I truely enjoy the sport and especially as I got older, not having to pack big long unweilding brush hanging long guns. Living in big bear infested communities, for years I carried a rifle and a handgun. Rifle for protection and long range hunting.
I picked up a couple of contenders and for years found myself pushing the limits of that platform trying to get range and knockdown defense for bear protection. I settled on and carried a 444 marlin for 10 years and it served me very well.
When the Encore handgun and its heavy frame came along I thought I was in fat city and started hunting with a 358 Winchester cartridge. I never got into the bolt action handguns much because they were spendy by comparison and to convert one into a viable hunting cartridge while raising a family was definitely cost prohibitive. Plus I was unable to find a bolt action hunting setup back in the day that came in as light as my break opens.
Then along came the Savage Striker of which I missed the boat the first few years of its travels around the country. That was then and after finding out how without special tools I could change boltheads and barrels on the Strikers from 22 Hornet to 460 Weatherby's.
My wife currently hunts with a 6.2 pound 338WSM wildcat and I hunt with either a 6.7 pound 338 Win Mag or an 8 pound 338 Edge handgun. The Edge at 2950fps with a 225 grain Accubond pretty much dominates my handgun hunting world.
Neal
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