Defenseless!

[Old Guy]

A School, no one in a School is able to protect any one, including them selves! They are defenseless.

In visiting a School yesterday, my Wife and I were helping our Daughter with a program she was teaching.

Going out to get something from the Jeep, almost got ran down by a violent influx of 5 and 6 year olds! Directed out of the playground by local Police.

Several said emergency! A Orlando City PD car was prowling the grounds, roof lights on. They were looking for someone, here am I in a facility on lock down, unarmed like every one else! and a presumably dangerous person, or persons is being sought by armed Police?

This School was not in the best part of the City, a mile from a correctional facility.

Did I ever feel defenseless watching that Orlando PD vehicle outside, we all locked inside, Defenseless!

 

[withdrawn34]

Yes that is the case, and I doubt it will ever change.

In my high school (University high, actually, in Orlando), there were quite a few times where the school went on lockdown, but usually that just meant that the doors were locked and we couldn't leave, such as to go the restroom, for example.

Usually there were two resource officers (armed) walking the campus, but the campus is pretty large and there are only two officers.

Regardless, it is still a victim zone if someone decided to try it.

 

[j_charles]

You should have nothing to worry about. Afterall, if guns aren't allowed inside the school, than there's no way a criminal would ever bring one in. He'll just politely lock it in his vehicle before proceeding inside, like a good bad guy! :banghead:

Sorry you were put into that situation.

Though the thought does come to mind that if it's conealed, how will anyone know you have it one you? Just sayin'... "Better to be judged by twelve..." and all that.

 

[7.62X25mm]

They should put a big sign outside:

"NOTICE TO DEVIATES, PERVERTS, LECHERS, AND SOCIOPATHS: AS A FUNCTION OF OFFICIAL ADMINISTRATIVE POLICY WE'VE GATHERED TOGETHER MOST OF THE YOUNG CHILDREN IN THE COMMUNITY AND SYSTEMATICALLY DISARMED ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO MIGHT BE CAPABLE OF DEFENDING THEM. WE'RE DEFENSELESS. COME GET US."

 

[RPCVYemen]

Yeah, right after the VTech incident, I got a letter from the president of my son's college - which was also in Virginia. The president wanted to reassure me, talked about the strong lock down policy.

I started to write back saying, "You do understand that Cho chained the doors shut in the hall where he shot most of the students, right? He implemented his own lock down policy!"

Mike

 

[Sinixstar]

The police were there - no? What exactly would your being armed bring to the situation.
You are not law enforcement. It is not your job to track down the bad guy.
What exactly would you have done had you been armed?

 

[catfish101]

The police were there - no? What exactly would your being armed bring to the situation.
You are not law enforcement. It is not your job to track down the bad guy.
What exactly would you have done had you been armed?

How this situation turned out he probably would have done nothing. Had the situation changed and the bad person came into the school he could have.

I think you missed the point.

You are not law enforcement

Ummm. So you are saying that law enforcement should protect everybody?

 

[Sinixstar]

Ummm. So you are saying that law enforcement should protect everybody?

No - i'm saying that by his own description - there were already cops all over the area, including in/at the school. What would being armed bring to the situation? What advantage would that provide exactly?

And as a matter of fact, yea - it's the job of the police to protect people in that situation. That's why they're there, that's what they're paid for. Again - from the sound of things, they had it under control. What exactly is being armed going to accomplish in that situation.

We can get into hypothetical ifs and buts and all that all day long.
What if the guy came into the school? What if there were 100 of 'em, they were russian, and had AK's an RPGs? What if, it was an invasion from outer space - holy crap we need to put tanks in front of every school TODAY!

I mean, come on - be reasonable.

 

[HIcarry]

No - i'm saying that by his own description - there were already cops all over the area, including in/at the school. What would being armed bring to the situation? What advantage would that provide exactly?

Did they catch the "bad guy" they were looking for? If not, either it was a false report or he got away. If the latter, it means that there was a possibility that the bad guy was still on campus, eluding detection by the police. If he was in the building while the police were outside searching and securing the perimeter, then he could have been in a position to threaten those sequestered therein by the lockdown. Had that occured, being armed and able to respond to those threats would have certainly been preferable to being disarmed.

 

[Sinixstar]

hell - i got a "what if" for ya...

What if guy was armed, and BG came inside the school. OP let's him have it, police run in - see a guy standin there with a gun, and another guy on the ground bleeding. What do you think is going to happen to OP? I bet he's not around to post here anymore that's for sure.

 

[Sinixstar]

Did they catch the "bad guy" they were looking for? If not, either it was a false report or he got away. If the latter, it means that there was a possibility that the bad guy was still on campus, eluding detection by the police. If he was in the building while the police were outside searching and securing the perimeter, then he could have been in a position to threaten those sequestered therein by the lockdown. Had that occured, being armed and able to respond to those threats would have certainly been preferable to being disarmed.

That makes the assumption that A) the BG was on the campus in the first place. From the sounds of things - that was not the case, or I imagine there would have been a LOT more activity going on. B) that even though the school was locked down, BG still managed to find his way past police, and into the school.

Again - we can play the what-if game all day long - but it doesn't really do any good.

 

[catfish101]

No - i'm saying that by his own description - there were already cops all over the area, including in/at the school. What would being armed bring to the situation? What advantage would that provide exactly?

And as a matter of fact, yea - it's the job of the police to protect people in that situation. That's why they're there, that's what they're paid for. Again - from the sound of things, they had it under control. What exactly is being armed going to accomplish in that situation.

We can get into hypothetical ifs and buts and all that all day long.
What if the guy came into the school? What if there were 100 of 'em, they were russian, and had AK's an RPGs? What if, it was an invasion from outer space - holy crap we need to put tanks in front of every school TODAY!

I mean, come on - be reasonable.

I was. There were officers there but the point was that suppose they missed the person and he came into the school.

Hypothetical ifs and buts is why allot people carry firearms or have fire extinguishers in there homes. I don't carry because I have the intention of shooting somebody. Considering the ifs and buts is being prepared in this situation.

Old Guy never said he would have gone out and joined in a manhunt.

 

[RandyB]

If we are playing the what if game:
What if the BG got past the cops and started shooting kids. I'd rather be shot by the cops after putting a BG down shooting kids, than have said BG shot my son or daugther. In a lock down, go to the room which your child is in, lock the doors, keep your gun concealed and call LEO to let them know that you are there and follow the school and LEO procedures on the lockdown & evacuate. Just because you have the gun doesn't mean you need to have it drawn and waving it around.

 

[Sinixstar]

Again - this all assumes that the police are completely and utterly useless, and that the preparations on the part of the school and LE have been completely useless, and that the only person left standing between the bad guy and dead kids - is the CCW.

Sorry - but I'm not quite that paranoid. I like to at least have SOME faith in the police to do their jobs, especailly while they're actually, ya know - doing their jobs.

If you guys want to go on and on about all the what-if's - that's great. I'll leave you to it then.

 

[cat9x]

again, liberal beaurocrats telling you if, when, and how you can defend yourself. It's almost a sad joke.

 

[Sinixstar]

again, liberal beaurocrats telling you if, when, and how you can defend yourself.

Where did anybody mention anything about liberals, Democrats, or anything even remotely political?

Last I checked - the majority of Florida (OP's state) was republican controlled. The FL State Legislature most certainly is, and has been for quite some time. Pretty sure they have a republican governor as well, and have for some time now.

People making assumptions about politics based on no real information at all. It's almost a sad joke.

 

[catfish101]

Sorry - but I'm not quite that paranoid. I like to at least have SOME faith in the police to do their jobs, especailly while they're actually, ya know - doing their jobs.

Sinixstar, I am not that paranoid either but I do have a fire extinguisher in my shop because if a fire starts I can try to put it out. I have a spare tire in my truck so if I have a flat tire I can change it and be on my way.

I have SOME faith in the police, myself, but not ALL the faith.

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

Everyone has had good points so far. Yes, the police are usually very efficient at doing their jobs. But they can only do their jobs if they are present. As Catfish said, you make preparations in the event that the situation gets out of control. If I only ever got flat tires in auto-garage parking lots, then I wouldn't carry a spare tire. If a cop was on site whenever there was a crime happening, I wouldn't feel the need to carry. The fact is that they cannot be everywhere I am when/if I need them.

 

[cat9x]

sorry Sinixstar but I do not stand corrected.

 

[Sinixstar]

Sinixstar, I am not that paranoid either but I do have a fire extinguisher in my shop because if a fire starts I can try to put it out. I have a spare tire in my truck so if I have a flat tire I can change it and be on my way.

Understood - but those are two things that have some likelihood of happening at some point.

Is there such a likelihood in the scenario of BG getting past everyone and going on a rampage, in the situation described - that not having a gun leaves you at some great risk?

I guess what it comes down to - is what is the perceived level of risk involved, and what is your tolerance for risk? The odds of BG coming in and slaughtering everybody I think are probably somewhere between getting hit by lightening, and winning the lottery. Is that something you really want to be that worried about?

 

[Sinixstar]

Everyone has had good points so far. Yes, the police are usually very efficient at doing their jobs. But they can only do their jobs if they are present.

I understand what you're saying entirely - and in certain situations yes, absolutely you are your own defense.
I just don't understand the "oh my god bad guys are coming and i'm completely defenseless" mentality in this situation. LE was there, and from the sounds of things were doing EXACTLY what they were supposed to do.

 

[Sinixstar]

sorry Sinixstar but I do not stand corrected.

good for you.
cookie?

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

But if it happened wouldn't you wish you had prepared for it? That is why I carry. I do not carry because I intend to use my gun against others. I carry it in the event that I may need it. Better safe then sorry.

 

[Sinixstar]

But if it happened wouldn't you wish you had prepared for it? That is why I carry. I do not carry because I intend to use my gun against others. I carry it in the event that I may need it. Better safe then sorry.

Again, I think that goes back to risk levels, and risk tolerance. I have a pretty painfully low risk tolerance level, but I don't see the risk level there as being anything to even be remotely concerned about (in this situation at least). Perhaps others disagree, I just don't see it.

 

[HIcarry]

I guess what it comes down to - is what is the perceived level of risk involved, and what is your tolerance for risk? The odds of BG coming in and slaughtering everybody I think are probably somewhere between getting hit by lightening, and winning the lottery. Is that something you really want to be that worried about?

If that is the case, then why do you carry a gun at all? After all, your risk of needing it is very low.

Someone else said it better, but it is not the odds of it happening that are most important, it is the significance of the loss should the worst happen that is most important. Sure, the risk of the bad guy getting in, past the cops (who despite the best intentions, may not rush into an active shooter situation) is minimal, but if he does, it doesn't really matter what the "likelihood" of that event was, does it? The only thing that matters is how you'll be able to protect yourself and the children at that point.

As for the cops accidently shooting the CCw'er who just shot the bad guy, well, I am sure that might happen. I believe there was a recent incident where a homeowner was shot by police as he walked down his stairs after shooting a home invader. Does that mean that you think we shouldn't plan for home invasions for fear that responding police might shoot us if we are forced to shoot the intruder?