Delivery driver looking to CCW on a budget

[Eksistensens Jeger]

I work as a delivery driver for a restaurant. I live in a very poverty-stricken and crime-ridden city in the rust belt. I have been robbed at gunpoint after two men placed an order with a stolen cell phone to be delivered to a vacant house they were hanging out in. I had no weapon on me and was outnumbered. I gave them the cash in my wallet and then got the hell out of there. All the other delivery drivers I've worked with have been robbed, some multiple times. One fellow had a .38 on him and fired 2 shots, ending the robbery. As you can see, I'm not really in love with my job. I do enjoy the actual work. It's pretty laid-back and all that's really required of me is to answer phones and deliver food. The risks are a big draw-back though, and the low wages aren't always made up for in tips. All this in mind, jobs are very hard to come by these days. Beyond that, I'm not about ready to let a few young punks scare me away from making money.

After being robbed, the need for a handgun and a ccw permit became a stark reality for me. When I was younger I had planned on getting a ccw permit once I was old enough. I'll be 22 in 4 months and I still haven't gotten around to it. Now is time. The only issue.... is money of course. I'm a full-time college student and I have an infant son. Because of these responsibilities, it's hard for me to save up any large amount of money unless it is needed to pay bills or for my son. Right now I have a little under 300 dollars put aside for this.

I'm looking for a handgun that's concealable, comfortable to shoot, has adequate firepower for self-defense, and won't leave me broke. I also don't want to blow all the money on the handgun and not have any left for a holster, ammo, etc.

I've been considering pocket carry as it would probably be more comfortable and would also lend itself well to the actual life-threatening situations I'm likely to be in. If an armed attacker asks me to give him my wallet, my money, my cellphone, whatever... I simply act as if I am going to comply, and reach into my back pocket as if reaching for a wallet but instead having a pistol ready to fire. Otherwise I would probably go with an IWB holster, but OWB could be suitable for the winter.

Because of my budget I've been looking mostly at surplus pistols. The CZ-82 and P64 seem like good choices. I got to get my hands on a CZ-82 at a gun show and I really liked the way the pistol felt in my hand. It fit well, was sturdy, had good sights, and so on. Though, it did seem a little large to be able to pocket carry. The P64 seems like a really good bargain. At $160 on JGsales, I could get the pistol, new springs, and a holster for under $250 including shipping and FFL transfer. With the CZ I'd be spending over $200 on just the gun.

I've also been thinking about waiting a little longer to purchase a gun so I can save up more. This is kind of a tough dilemma though, with winter here and business going up at work; more opportunities for me to find myself in a bad situation. The plus side to waiting, though, would be if I can just save up a couple hundred more or so I can get a safer, more powerful, more modern, more comfortable firearm. One I've been looking at is the Springfield XD 40 subcompact. I've yet to see one hands-on, but from what I've read and watched on the internet it looks like a great carry pistol and comes with a holster and other goodies. I believe they also have a lifetime warranty. This is very attractive.

I'm posting this cause I'm looking for advice, suggestions, commentary, and so on.

 

[ljnowell]

If you want a ccw to protect the money in your wallet, dont do it. If you want it to protect your life, get it.

 

[cbrgator]

Check out the S&W Sigma. Can be had for far cheaper than an XD-40 ($250-300).

 

[Blind Bat]

If you want a ccw to protect the money in your wallet, don't do it. If you want it to protect your life, get it.

+1
Even in the live-free-or-die state it's illegal to protect your property outside the home with deadly force. Your life on the other hand is a different story, however be prepared for literal and financial nightmares should you ever need to use your CCW. It's probably cheaper and easier to find another job.

That said, I don't think a CZ-82 is a good first pistol. The recoil bites pretty bad which will cause a new shooter to flinch. I've never shot a CZ-83 but it's probably a little more tame.

You probably want something in 9mm. The only (non-corrosive) ammo cheaper than 9mm is .22lr. Cheap ammo = more practice = better shot placement when it counts. The Sig P6 is a great gun for $300-$400. Used glocks can be had for <$400. Old S&W's as well.

 

[Clipper]

A new Kel-Tec PF-9 is about $250.00. 7+1 9mm, and 15oz loaded. You can't get smaller, flatter or lighter in 9mm. Lifetime warranty and american made. The Kel-Tec .380 is smaller yet, and goes for around $200.00.

 

[Snowdog]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll chime in and suggest Bersa. If the Cz-82 fit your hand well, the UC9 (9mm) will likely do the same as they're both quite similar in size.
SOG International may still offer these new for less than $300.

The UC9 isn't going to win any awards for beauty, nor is it American made. Its polygonal rifled barrel may limit you from using inexpensive non-jacketed ammunition. It cannot be carried cocked-and-locked. It also has a loaded-chamber indicator and an integral lock (meh... neither of any use to me).

However, for a $300 pistol, here's what mine does provide me with:

*A well-designed pistol (thanks to Walther, IIRC) that's well made
*A pistol that fires, ejects and feeds anything in the chamber/magazine when the trigger's pulled
*An acceptable DA trigger pull and a rather exceptional SA pull, both smooth
*Decent accuracy for a compact pistol (see my thread on the UC9 Pro for details)
*A light weight pistol with great ergonomics for those with average-sized hands
*A capacity of 13 +1 rounds of any JHP of my choosing (mine came with a spare 13 round magazine)
*A lifetime warranty from a company with a decent reputation
*Ambidextrous controls, should I ever one day decide to be a lefty
*A pistol that readily uses G19 holsters (that I already have and are easy to find online)
*A decocker and picatinny accessory rail should I ever decide to slap on something (not for me)


For a budget pistol that absolutely must be reliable, it's a solid contender in my book.

 

[Kind of Blued]

I strongly suggest doing everything you can to find a new job. I also second ljnowell's post.

That said, I'm in a similar situation, although I carry, and my jurisdiction is pretty safe. I'm not sure what your work attire is like, but for me, IWB/OWB is out of the question, even if well concealed. In the past two years I've never been found out, but I would have been probably 6 times if I had been carrying IWB or OWB.

That said, my preferred carry gear at work is a J-frame on my ankle, another in my pocket, a knife, and a VERY bright flashlight (good for finding those unfamiliar apartment buildings as well as for defense). I'll also usually have a speedloader in my pocket, especially if I just have one gun on me.

When I'm driving, I can't get to the pocket gun, when I'm on foot, I can't get to the ankle gun, so I really appreciate them both when I can get away with it. I've done a S&W 642 in the pocket as well as a Kahr PM9. The Kahr is MUCH easier to shoot, but looks MUCH more like a gun in your pocket. Keep in mind the PM9 is the smallest 9mm you can get without spending more, and it is already more than you want to spend. I would strongly suggest against an autoloader if you want to have one gun that you KNOW you can conceal in some fashion in any weather.

I would suggest something like a S&W 642/442, or if necessary, a cheaper lightweight Taurus snubby in .38 Special (+P). Also, investigate the laws of your state as well. Even if I didn't have a concealed carry permit, Colorado is still fine with a loaded handgun in my car and the AR, AK, or shotgun that often ride in my trunk with magazines topped off and inserted.

Despite all of this, if anybody ever has the drop on me, they can have all of the money I have. I'll make the store eat it. On the other hand, as you mentioned, having the pocket gun is incredibly advantageous in certain instances, although I wouldn't try to stop a robbery already in progress unless I thought I was going to die. Consider even the best case scenario for a minute; you draw, robber runs off. You're still going to want to report this to the police ASAP, and your employer is going to want to know why you're taking so long, or wonder why a cop is showing up at your work to talk to you. Just because you can win a fight, doesn't mean you should participate.

Also, don't forget that you ride around in a big, effective weapon which can get you out of a fight very quickly.

 

[kingmt]

If you want a ccw to protect the money in your wallet, dont do it. If you want it to protect your life, get it.

I have to agree here. If in this situation it would be hard to defend yourself because they already have a gun pulled on you. More then likley you would get shot.

I suggest you get 10 $1 bills & fold them inside of a $20 bill. If all they want is money then they should be happy to take this instead of your wallet & at worst you would be out $30. This is said to be safer then handing over a wallet & your not giving over bank cards, ID, & other important info.

Now to answer your question. I would suggest a Kahr because of its size & reputation but my preference is a Taurus.

 

[Sig Man]

Tough situation. On the one hand you want to protect yourself, and on the other you want to do it as inexpensively as possible. All the pistols mentioned above will to the job quite well. Whatever you buy, I would suggest you save a little of your investment dollars on a good armorer to thoroughly go over the gun. I would hate to really need it and it not function. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Eksistensens Jeger]

I guess I should clarify that I would only be using this weapon if I thought that my life was in danger. I wouldn't be getting the pistol just for the job either. I need something to protect my family. My concern isn't money.. if a little wad of cash from deliveries can get me out of the situation, than that's what I'll do. That isn't always the situation though, and I live in the type of city where the scumbags will rob you, shoot you, and piss on your grave. Personally, if someone is pointing a gun at me, they are threatening my life and there's no way around that.

I do understand that if I ever have to use the gun, I could be facing legal and financial problems. But personally, I'd rather be in debt and still be alive and able to take care of my family than to be 6 feet in the ground. I think the law is sort of in my favor, though, in my state at least (Ohio). I don't know the specifics, but the fellow I worked with never got charged with anything. He didn't even have his permit at the time, it was still being processed. He mentioned something about a clause in the law detailing that if you have a serious fear for your life, you can carry a weapon. He had been robbed before where he really did fear for his life.

 

[Vonderek]

If you want a ccw to protect the money in your wallet, dont do it. If you want it to protect your life, get it.

While I agree with this in theory the reality is a little more blurry. Many robbery victims end up shot for their efforts after complying with the robbers' demands anyway. Every altercation is different and there are no absolute blueprint for how a crime will unfold. With that in mind, I have to assume that anyone pointing a gun at me in a threatening manner means to kill me or do me grave bodily injury and given the opportunity I will react in a forceful way to protect myself.

For the OP I think a small .38 pocket carried may be his best option, given his limited budget and his desired method of carry. $300 is on the low end of the spectrum of handguns and precludes him from quality leather and premium ammo after his handgun purchase (I am hoping he has additional funds beyond the $300 to pay for the CCW classes/application process).

He may be able to find a used Taurus 85. An Uncle Mike's Sidekick holster is dirt cheap and fine for pocket carry. Not sure what WWB ammo goes for these days but he should buy what he can afford to train. While a snub nose .38 is capable of great accuracy, it will take time to master. He will also need a box or two of JHP and make sure his gun runs fine with it before he carries it.

 

[wow6599]

I would go with a Kel-Tec P11. 10+1 of 9mm in a package that small is very hard to beat. for $300 you can get the gun and an extra magazine - and if you find a good enough deal you may be able to also get a holster. Oh yeah, and a no questions asked lifetime warranty.
I have one that has been perfect after the first 50 rds or so to break it in.

I would stay away from anything .380 right now because ammo is to hard to find and if you do find it, well it will cost you out the a**. 9mm is easy to come by and won't break the bank. YMMV.

Chris

 

[CornCod]

Let's see, I would go for a used J-frame Smith and Wesson .38 or maybe a .380 Bersa Thunder. The S&W Sigma suggestion sounds pretty good to me. The Kel-Tec line is fine. Just be sure to practice a lot.

 

[markallen]

There are many advantages to pocket carry, and some disadvantages as well.
If you pocket carry, it's easy to get to when you are standing, not so much when you are sitting. But with pocket carry, and the right size gun, you can palm your gun, and switch from pants pocket to coat pocket pretty easy.
For me in winter, and when I'm in my car, I prefer to have it in my coat pocket.
It can get hard to get to your gun if it's on your hip, and your coat is zipped up.
But then that's another thread about dressing around your gun.
Another option is to go with a snubby revolver. Whether you pick a small semi- auto, or revolver, you will need to be proficient with your gun, and that takes practice. A lot of folks will tell you that it is hard to master a snubby, and they do take practice, as will a small semi.
One of the advantages I see to a revolver, is that if you have one hand tied up, as in carrying something, and or fending off somebody, it can be reliably fired with one hand. As can a semi, but, if your semi jams, or fails to extract, or feed, then you will need to have two hands to get it operational,
If you make contact with a body part, as in close combat, you could take a semi out of battery, where as a revolver can be jammed against a body part, and still be fired, repeatably. You can also in a pinch, fire a revolver from inside the pocket, and be able to do it again if needed, with a semi you can do this once.

 

[03Shadowbob]

Some great suggestions here. I would also suggest some training as it seems you are a lot more liely to get robbed, hurt, killed than a lot of us here.
If I was on a budget like yours, I would buy a Ruger LCP or Keltec PF9.

 

[searcher451]

The first thing I'd do would be to find a safer job in a better neighborhood.
Yikes Cripes.

Failing that, a number of excellent pocket guns are currently available at reasonable prices -- less than $300. If you can find a used one that works, so much the better.

 

[Autolycus]

I would suggest a new better paying job that will give you more money to purchase a better gun as well as one that is safer.

 

[dusty14u]

A new Kel-Tec PF-9 is about $250.00. 7+1 9mm, and 15oz loaded. You can't get smaller, flatter or lighter in 9mm. Lifetime warranty and american made. The Kel-Tec .380 is smaller yet, and goes for around $200.00.

__________________

I will 2nd Clippers suggestion. Great gun for CCW. Can be concealed easily and 9mm is a great defensive round.

 

[mr.scott]

If you want a ccw to protect the money in your wallet, dont do it. If you want it to protect your life, get it.

If someone sticks a gun in your face, you don't wonder if they are going to take your cash or kill you for fun. You end the threat how ever you can.
The OP needs to understand the laws that pertain to him in his state. In Texas if someone says give me your wallet I can give him 2 in the chest.

As far as weapons the OP should look at, The Sigma, CZ-82, Bersa, Kel-tec are good choices. Just make sure you run them at the range to make sure they work.
You should also look at wheelguns. Taurus and Rossi make $300 .38's

Budsgunshop has 4" Smith and Wesson .38's for $279 to your FFL. add about $25 for ffl fee and for a tad over $300 you'll have a fully functional, and dependable hand gun.

 

[earplug]

Since you broke while getting educated. I would assume your limited in money for range time.
In your situation I would buy a 38 spl revolver and pocket holster. You can even make your own holster if your handy.
Buy a box or two of 158 grain LSWCHP ammo. 158 grain bullets are what most 38 spl revolvers are designed to shoot to point of aim.
The FBI used to use this type of ammo. Its still good.
With a revolver you can practice with your draw, dry fire and not damage anything and get some decent practice.
The semi autos are fine weapons, they are difficult to practice without a range.
Some are fussy about ammo. You could have a smaller more powerfull weapon in a semi, but have less confidence in it without range practice.

 

[CZ223]

I won't tell you to get a new job

You are in a tough situation and it sounds like you are trying to do the right thing by getting an education and providing for your son. I comend you for all of that. Stay in school, the better jobs will come later.

Actually there are quite a few good choices these days for guns under $300. Kel-Tec makes at least 3 models that fill the bill.

Kel-tec P3-AT
Kel-Tec PF9
and the P11

While the P3AT seems most in line with what you are looking for, a true pocket gun it is a 380 which is, as someone has already poiunted out expensive and hard to come by these days. I have handled the p9 I believe and it seemed like a very well made pistol. All of the Kel-Tecs have a great reputation.

The Ruger LCP is basically the same gun as the P3-AT and it can be had for just under $300. Again it is a 380 but it is a great pocket gun. I own two of these and one is going to my daughter just as soon as she gets her permit.

Probably the best choice for you would be a small 38 special. Your best bet in a new gun would be a Taurus 85. They will eat up most of your $300 but they can be found for just under that mark. Rossi and Charter arms also offer guns around the same price. My choice would be for the Taurus.

Used Guns: Buying a used revolver is pretty easy even for the begginer. If the cylinder doesn't have a lot of play and the barrel is clean and clear with no bulges it is probably just fine. Buying a used auto loader is a little more complex but, if you stick with a good manufacturer like Glock Smith and wesson etc. you are probably gonna get a good gun.

There are a lot of good police trades out there like 1st and second generation Glocks and the older all stel Smiths. Great guns all. Check out Mark at www.summitgunbroker.com he has Glocks and smiths close to where you want to be.

Check out the local gun shops for used Snith revolvers as well as Taurus. You should be able to get a good used Taurus 85 for around the $200 mark and a decent smith for around $300.

 

[SomeDude]

A lot of states, like here in MO, allow deadly force if it is used during a forcible felony (armed robbery, carjacking, etc). Whichever gun you get, practice, practice, practice. I would suggest a snubby hammerless design that you could carry in a coat pocket. If you feel you need to defend your life you can just shoot through your pocket if it really comes down to it. Not the best advice, but not the worst.

 

[T. Bracker]

For a good, inexpensive reliable CCW, I have had good luck with the Taurus DAO revolvers. I have had several over the years and they have all gone "bang" every time and been acceptably accurate for what they are.

 

[oldcrowraven]

+1 on the .38 spl. Can get decent deals on used ones.

 

[Quoheleth]

If you really like the CZ82, check CDNN Investments (google). Their price is as low as $160 on the gun. The holster that comes with it from J&G is worthless for concealed carry. Get an inexpensive Uncle Mike for $15 or so, to get you through. The 9 Mak is more oomph than a .380; less than a 9mm Luger/Parabellum. J&G does have some nice Smith revolvers, and so does Buds gunshop, for around $250. Fill those with +P ammo and you've got serious firepower.

Q