Developing load for ACP .45 lead RN

[ljnowell]

Because it is too short.
Seating the MB 230 at 1.200" would put the ogive down inside the case neck and leave a gap between the case & the bullet ogive.

You may be correct that 1.200" is right for a 1-radius bullet.

But 230 grain .45 ACP 1-R bullets are few and far between when you buy cast bullets.

Some commercial cast bullets, such as Missouri Bullet, use the Magma 45-230 RN BB mold, which is slightly different then a true 230 grain GI bullet.

Magma mold 45-233-RN-BB is very close to the GI bullet profile, and doesn't have a driving band shoulder.

Proper OAL for them is going to be just about the same as GI hardball, or 1.266" - 1.271".

This is the MB 45-230-RN-BB the OP ask about.
It should be seated to the foreword edge of the driving band.

Whatever the OAL comes out to be, Is what it is.
But it won't be 1.200".

I think if you did seat the bullet all the way flush with the driving band, it may be 1.20 or thereabouts. I have loaded alot of the 230 gr Missouir Bullet softballs, and I like mine around 1.230-1.240. There is still some of the band showing at that length. To load them out to 1.265 there will be a large amount of it showing. You really cant load them to a total flush with the band and have a normal OAL.

 

[Werewolf]

I put 8.2 grs of Accurate #5 under that 230gr LRN bullet. OAL is 1.5. This load chronies for me at an avg of 880 FPS with a std dev of of 12 FPS out of a 5" barrel 1911. It is a very accurate load.

But less accurate out of my Sig P220 with a 4.2" barrel. For that gun I use 5.3 grs HP-38at a COL of 1.2. Chronies at 830 + 10 FPS. Works great in the shorter barrel, very accurate, not so much out of the 5" standard 1911 barrel. This load is straight out of the Hogdon manual.

Don't know about the guys saying 1.2 is too short. Have no clue what a 1-R bullet is. Could you guys explain in more detail - learning new stuff is important - especially so when it comes to ammo.

That Said:
Been reloading for about 8 years now and have never had any problems with any bullet in .45ACP at an OAL of 1.2 though most of my loads do run 1.5 to 1.27.

 

[rcmodel]

1-R, 2-R, 3-R etc means the radius of the ogive in calibers.

One radius or 1-R bullet design.


Two radius, or 2-R bullet design.


Three radius, or 3-R bullet design.


The more R's, the longer the bullet will be for any given weight.
Also, the longer the seated OAL will be.

rc

 

[Werewolf]

1-R, 2-R, 3-R etc means the radius of the ogive in calibers.

Ahhhhh... that explains a lot.

But why does it change OAL measurements?

It does appear that the R number would have an impact on how the bullet would feed into the chamber - is that even relevant?

 

[Jeff H]

Heck, my 230 LRN are seated out at 1.265 (not Missouri but the same Magma mold) and don't give me any issues in my 1911. They feed and cycle perfectly.

 

[918v]

Ahhhhh... that explains a lot.

But why does it change OAL measurements?

It does appear that the R number would have an impact on how the bullet would feed into the chamber - is that even relevant?

Due to the geometry of the bullet, a 1R ogjive will hit the rifling sooner at a given OAL than a more slender design. A 1R bullet simply will not chamber in a standard 45 ACP chamber at an OAL of 1.260". The bullet will hit the rifling before the case is fully seated and will result in a failure to feed malfunction.

 

[918v]

I agree.
It is confusing.

Most new reloaders, and a majority of old experianced ones, expect the listed OAL in the manual to be what you are supposed to use with that bullet.

Not the minimum that you could ever use with a goofy 1-R bullet nobody sells.

rc

If they expect a certain OAL, then they should be using the bullet manufacturer's data, not the powder manufacturer's data. Powder manufacturer's data has to be universal. Bullet manufacturer's data has to be specific.

People should read a manual before reloading. Things like OAL vs. pressure are usually covered.

 

[twice barrel]

I happen to like that "softball" over 4.8gr Hodgdon Universal at 1.235. I do use a firm taper crimp and like how it looks, feeds, and shoots. Once the barrel heats up the lube sure smokes a trail.

 

[918v]

How did you arrive at the 1.235" OAL? In other words, why did you not stick to the 1.260" OAL promoted by other people in this thread? Did you try the longer OAL first? Did the bullet hit the rifling prematurely?

 

[twice barrel]

Well, this thread came after I worked up my load. It drops into my barrel's chamber, feeds thru my magazine/action, and shoots well. I just didn't chase anymore combinations down.

TB

 

[Skip_a_roo]

No, 1.200 is not too short. It, the reloading data, is a recipe, period.

Let's say you make a cake. Put in too much salt. It isn't going to turn out right.

Same way with a reloading recipe. 1.200" is the OAL with that weight of powder in those type of cases with that kind of primer and bullet, period. If you try to substitute anything you had better do it with more knowledge than most home reloaders have.

The 4.5gr load works because the OAL is 1.200". Change that OAL to 1.265" and you may get a stuck bullet in your barrel. Of course, no big deal as long as you don't chase it with another one!

That is the reason for the difference in charge weight. It means that the seating depth is less making more room in the case. That means that pressure is going to drop, and that could mean that you don't have enough pressure to drive that bullet out of the barrel. Maybe.

If you want a longer OAL, use the other recipe and go up in charge weight. Use the recipe, plain and simple.

I have several loads that call for a 1.190" OAL. I also have several that call for a 1.275" OAL. Guess what, different powders, different weights of the same powder.

Sorry to be long winded.

 

[918v]

I disagree. Hodgron's load data for the 230gr LRN is generic, not specific to a particular projectile. They specify a 1.200" OAL to keep people safe. If they called for a 1.270" OAL with a generic LRN, and someone got a hold of some of those "goofy" 1R bullets, by casting them maybe, and then realized they would not chamber at 1.270" and then seated them deeper and damaged his gun... See where I'm going? Due to dozens of different mold profiles, it's better to be safe than sorry.

Also, there is the issue of throat diameter. Most commercial .45 ACP cast bullets mike .452". Most .45 ACP chambers have .453" throats and accept the front driving of a .452" bullet without any problems. Some chambers, however, have .452" throats and will not accept the front driving band of a .452" bullet. I had a Wilson CQB with a .452" throat. I had to size my bullets to .4515" in order for them to chamber using a normal OAL.

Now, some people are not willing to resize their bullets and simply reduce the OAL until the round chambers. Afterall, the nose is much smaller in diameter than the front driving band. They have no issue with taking a Missouri Bullet and seating the front driving band flush with the case mouth. I hope everyone sees where this is going. I can assure you Hodgdon is aware of this and has taken the necessary precautions when developing their data.

 

[Skip_a_roo]

No, 918v, Hodgdon's data is super specific for most of their data. Look at it. data.hodgdon.com

I understand your problem, I had it too with the Lee 228gr LRN. That is one silly mould!
Case in point with that bullet though, because there is so much of it sticking out of the case, the base of the bullet is not seated as deep as it would be if you used a standard 2R bullet, allowing for more powder space.

I cast a 230gr Saeco 456(?) with a reduced nose, much like the H&G #34. It is a wonderful bullet.

One thing for sure, the more of your bullet that is in the case, the higher the pressure. If you have a reduced area in the case, you could use a lighter charge and be just fine. It's give and take on that point.

I know this first hand, if you use too light of a load and have the OAL too long for that recipe, you are going to get a stuck bullet, period.

 

[918v]

If H's data is super specific, what brand of LRN are they using to develop their data? What mold was that LRN cast in?

 

[Skip_a_roo]

No, no, you are misunderstanding me. Read my post. MOST partner, I said, MOST.

If you use the Lee 2R bullet, and seat it to the 1.200" OAL, how much of that bullet is in the case? Will pressure be higher or lower if you were to use a 1R bullet?

We are in agreement, I think. If I have to use one of those silly bullets and seat it as short as they say to get it to chamber, and you do if you use them, then I had better stick with their powder recommendations too. If I can go to a longer OAL, then I can increase the powder charge and have the same pressure and still have the round chamber.

I can seat my bullet out to 1.275". If I use the 4.5gr, what will my velocity be and what pressure will I develop? If I seat that bullet out to 1.275" and use 5.5gr what will I get? Remember, the bullet I am using will seat that long and still chamber and feed from my magazines.

I think we agree more than not. You may be having a problem understanding what I am trying to say. My problem, not yours. I'll keep trying though!

 

[918v]

You're right, I missed the "most" part. We are in agreement.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I charge 5.5gr W231/HP-38 with 230gr bullets like those made by MB and use a OAL of between 1.260" and 1.270" like most everyone else here. I don't think I've loaded any other bullet/powder combination for the .45 Auto in years...

 

[Walkalong]

Yep. Hard to beat 5.0 to 5.5 Grs W-231. No need for a beginner to try anything else unless they just like to experiment. Yea, of course there are other excellent options, but that one just seems to universally work well.

 

[ruger1228]

Here is the load I worked up for 230gr LRN bullets for S&S castings bullets:
Hodgdon Univeral Clays: 5.4gr
Federal LP primers 150
Federal Cases
COL 1.235-1.245"
These feed perfectly in both my Kimber Pro-Carry and Kimber Ultra-Carry.
No FTF or FTE. And this load is very accurate in both pistols
thom