DG rifle/action hybrids?

[SaxonPig]

$7K for a big rifle? Wow. How often do you think you will actually use this thing?

I felt the need for some big rifles. Don't know why. I have not and never will hunt large, dangerous animals. But I figured I should representative examples of nig bore rifles in my collection.

Here are my solutions:

A BRNO 602 in 375 H&H. I bought this new in the middle 1980s when the embargo was in place. Had to jump through hoops to import it through Canada. There's one on Gunbroker right now at $900 with no bids.





Feeling the need for something REALLY big I had this 460 Jeffery built on a Remington Model 30S action. This is a true Magnum length action and the cartridge is the 404 Jeffery sized for a 458 bullet with an "improved" shoulder. Also known as the 460 G&A by some. Throws a 500 grain slug at around 2300 FPS splitting the difference between the 458 Winchester and the 460 Weatherby. Draw back is that cases and dies are godawful pricey. I see Model 30s at around $800 to $1,000 so it would still cost far less than 7 grand to make one.

 

[sig45elite]

$7K for a big rifle? Wow. How often do you think you will actually use this thing?

I felt the need for some big rifles. Don't know why. I have not and never will hunt large, dangerous animals. But I figured I should representative examples of nig bore rifles in my collection.

Here are my solutions:

A BRNO 602 in 375 H&H. I bought this new in the middle 1980s when the embargo was in place. Had to jump through hoops to import it through Canada. There's one on Gunbroker right now at $900 with no bids.





Feeling the need for something REALLY big I had this 460 Jeffery built on a Remington Model 30S action. This is a true Magnum length action and the cartridge is the 404 Jeffery sized for a 458 bullet with an "improved" shoulder. Also known as the 460 G&A by some. Throws a 500 grain slug at around 2300 FPS splitting the difference between the 458 Winchester and the 460 Weatherby. Draw back is that cases and dies are godawful pricey. I see Model 30s at around $800 to $1,000 so it would still cost far less than 7 grand to make one.

Nice. what's the recoil like on that .460? (compared to the .375)

Also, You know what I find curious...I have had many comments on the "price" I am willing to spend 5-7k on a single rifle, not only here, but on other forums?
YET...the same guys, have multiple rifles adding up to far more?
What is it about this.
1 gun @ 7k vs. 7 guns @ 1k <=> 7k, huh?
$7k is 7k is 7k.
I would rather have ONE really fine piece of work than 7 pieces of %#&$.
Different strokes, ya know?
I like quality and something different and special, and it just so happens you really get what you pay for with someone like McMillan.
What about buying a rifle from someone like this; http://www.rbbigbores.com/
Great work, but this was a bit out of my leage @ 21k, but to those who 21k is like a $20. dollar bill...?

If I buy this rifle (McMillan - Mauser M 03 - AHR DGR ) I am done in as far as bolt action hunting rifles go. With the .375 H&H I can comfortably hunt anything I would want to hunt, Lions & Tigers & Bears, oh my. LoL

 

[16n69]

Nice. what's the recoil like on that .460? (compared to the .375)

Also, You know what I find curious...I have had many comments on the "price" I am willing to spend 5-7k on a single rifle, not only here, but on other forums?
YET...the same guys, have multiple rifles adding up to far more?
What is it about this.
1 gun @ 7k vs. 7 guns @ 1k <=> 7k, huh?
$7k is 7k is 7k.
I would rather have ONE really fine piece of work than 7 pieces of %#&$.
Different strokes, ya know?
I like quality and something different and special, and it just so happens you really get what you pay for with someone like McMillan.
What about buying a rifle from someone like this; http://www.rbbigbores.com/
Great work, but this was a bit out of my leage @ 21k, but to those who 21k is like a $20. dollar bill...?

If I buy this rifle (McMillan - Mauser M 03 - AHR DGR ) I am done in as far as bolt action hunting rifles go. With the .375 H&H I can comfortably hunt anything I would want to hunt, Lions & Tigers & Bears, oh my. LoL

Hey sig45, I hear you, people get jealous of what you can afford and they cannot!
I LOVE Weatherbys, think they have the greatest actions ever made!
Like 'em in non-Weatherby calibers, though.

 

[sig45elite]

As H&H mentioned, I would have said it is not unusual for any rifle to need some smithing (and a lot of wringing out) to make it DG reliable. I'm not sure I can predict for you if you will fall into the "never encountered a feeding problem" group.

I do notice that he said that his personal M03 has never had a feeding problem; perhaps he has also never seen any M03 have a feeding problem, or any good quality push-feed rifle have a feeding problem...but he didn't mention that.Does this mean that even though he has never seen his M03 misfeed, some of his recently made Mauser-type action rifles have blown up?

If not, it's curious that he dismisses one potential deadly malfunction because it's never happened to him personally; but he emphasizes a different potentially deadly malfunction that has also never happened to him--why not dismiss that, too?

To each his own.

Perhaps it is worth noting that few of the favored African cartridges have operating pressures north of 62k psi; the .416 Rigby is down at around 47k. Weatherbys can be 65k, as is the .416 Remington Magnum. I've heard of bolts sticking closed with the .416 RM in African heat; if there's a rash of modern Mauser actions exploding, I missed it.

In the end, I think I will go with what a real "PRO" knows and not campfire "legends" , read his email to me;
"The CRF vs PF is strictly a matter of personal opinion. The majority of rifles used to take dangerous game are push feed. That is because the majority of the rifles made today are push feed. Our actions are smooth and dependable wherther CE+RF or PF so I all just depends on what you want. Then there is another choice as well. Three position safety as opposed to trigger safety. You can have either regardless of whether you choose PF or CRF. Some like the simplicity of off and and on, along with the ease of setting the safety with your thumb while in firing position. It’s a little farther reach for the 3PS. 3PS advantage is locking the bolt closed in the 3rd position. With either safety you can work the bolt with the safety on which allows you to remove a chambered round while the safety is one.

I am going to Mozambique in October for Cape Buffalo and I am taking a Prestige with 3PD and CRF in .404 Jeffrey. I just happened to build this rifle in the “traditional African Dangerous Game style because it is a traditional ADG cartridge. I would be just as comfortable using a Heritage in .416 Rem with PF and trigger safety."

Kelly D. McMillan
Director of Operations
McMillan Group International, LLC
623-582-9635
1638 W Knudsen Dr
Phoenix, Arizona 85027
McMillan Integrity-Global Vision
www.mcmillanusa.com

Become a fan of McMillan on facebook
http://www.facebook.com/McMillanGroupInternational

 

[H&Hhunter]

sig,

I've heard some good things about McMillian rifles. I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever you choose. Make sure and post pictures of your hunt.

P.S.

The "real" pros are the guys who use rifles in the field hunting and keeping clients safe day after day year after year. The guys who's lives and who's clients lives depend on their rifles functioning in times of emergency. Not some dude who is trying to sell you a rifle. You would receive a letter of equal confidence from each and every rifle maker you took the time to inquire with. That's the nature of the business.

 

[Loosedhorse]

The "real" pros are the guys who use rifles in the field hunting and keeping clients safe day after day year after year.

+1

Hey, sig, I don't sell rifles, so it doesn't matter to me what you buy. But it is a little off-putting that you "ask" for opinions as if you are open-minded, and then say anyone who doesn't agree that the choice of action-feed-type is inconsequential is just a "campfire 'legend'" and not a "real 'PRO'." I think you're wrong there.

If you already have a trip to Africa or AK lined up, maybe talk to the outfitter or (even better) PH there and ask him what he thinks. If he says it doesn't matter to him, you have your answer. Of course, if he says controlled-feed, he might just be another "campfire 'legend'"--in which case you might want to reconsider why you're going to hunt with him.

(I am sure any PH is more concerned with your field accuracy with a given rifle, and then that you've fired enough rounds through it--both to be confident with it, and also to have had good chance to find and correct any weak spots. Choice of which action-feed-type would be at most a third-tier consideration.)

 

[CraigC]

Also, You know what I find curious...I have had many comments on the "price" I am willing to spend 5-7k on a single rifle, not only here, but on other forums?
YET...the same guys, have multiple rifles adding up to far more?
What is it about this.

Actually I'm more confused by the rifles you've chosen to debate between. For if I were willing to spend $6500 on a McMillan, I would not even consider a CZ, Sako or Weatherby. I think you need to broaden your horizons and consider many more options available in the $6000-$7000 price range. You have the opportunity to acquire something very special for a very special hunt. Don't squander it! The best handling .375 I ever put my paws on was a custom shop Model 70, a new gun about 7yrs ago. It was approaching $4000 and fit me like a fine shotgun. I would suggest doing a LOT of handling and a lot of scrutinizing. Take your time and put the effort in.

Nice old Winchester:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=285149667

 

[bruinthumper]

Hi, I am trying to decide between 4 rifles/makes for a dangerous game rifle to be used in AK. and Africa.
I want open sights and will mount a TR24G: AccuPoint 1-4x24 30mm Riflescope with BAC, Green Triangle Reticle.

The guns are CZ Safari Classic Custom Shop Magnum Express; the Sako 85 Kodiak; the Weatherby Mark V Dangerous Game Custom(would've chose their Safari Custom but at 2x the price, for what seems to just be a wood stock over composite???); and last but certainly not least at double to triple the cost of the others; the McMillan Prestige DG Custom Rifle, all in .375 H&H.

Three of them seem to be this sort of "hybrid" version of a controlled round feed (CRF) or hybrid between that and a push feed (PF) action, the McMillan Prestige, Sako 85 Kodiak and the Weatherby DG Custom?
The CZ Safari Classic Express, I know is a classic Mauser type CRF.

I think the 3 rifles, other than the CZ, are slicker rifles, with better "fit & finish", certainly the McMillan at $6500. is a true hand built & honed custom shop gun, as is to a lesser degree, the Weatherby.
Sako is a production gun, I believe, and the CZ "Safari Classic: is partially "custom shop" as I spoke to the shop and they said in .375 H&H (as oppose to larger more custom calibers) the gun is mad in Czechoslovakia just like the cheaper CZ550, and then a better stock and barrel band plus for the .375, shorten the barrel to 20".
But kinda scary (CZ custom shop guy) when they do not even know that gun has the barrel shortened to 20" hence along with new stock & swivel, the $1400.up-charge.

The CZ and Sako is in the same price range ($2k-2.5k) , the Weatherby $3300-3500(w/options) and the McMillan is way more @ $6650., but looks like a terrific hi-tech functional work of art.

Of course...there is this traditionalist "true" CRF ONLY for DG vs. PF or it doesn't matter "thing"...???
I don't know?

What say you?
Thanks

Actually, you should look at the Mauser M 03 system in the Africa PH model in .375 H&H and get the extra "Solid" style barrel for it, in .300WM.
You would be set for anything in N.A. up close or long range...and with the .375, darn good Grizzly / Brown defense gun. Get it in the 56cm (22") barel for .375 H&H and in the 65cm (25") "Solid" barrel for .300WM. Both barrels are 19mm wide so getting a nice tight fit with that synthetic stock. Gun is weather proof. Lots of options, and is quickly broken down for carry in the Mauser Double Case w/ extra barrel there too. Scopes come on & off fast and stay zero.
Killer rifle!