Did Dirty Harry shoot 44 Magnums?

[mokin]

Lots of fun in this thread. Makes me want to have a little film festival.

By looking at the pictures you guys put up, especially where you see the business end of those revolvers, I reckon it doesn't make much difference what its loaded with.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I was in high school working part time at a gun shop after class and weekends when Dirty Harry premiered.
Later, in college when Magnum “Farce” as we called it made the rounds.
The original DH was a favorite movie shown at the Student Union that had a movie every Saturday night. Cost 50cents. Cheapest date in town. (Well before 300 tv channels, satellite tv, vcr’s, tape rentals).
We always presumed that when the reference was made to “wadcutters in magnums” that the implication was .38wadcutters in a .357magnum. Not a .357case loaded with wadcutters. Common for practice and qualifications.

I suppose you had to be a child of that era to appreciate dialogue and not read anything into it...
I took my wife of 43yrs on our first date to see Magnum Force at the student union. She’s even more fond of the .44 mag than I am. Even she knows the difference between full power magnums and .44 spl equivalent loads. She adores the 6.5” M29.
Besides, it was a MOVIE.

 

[Dibbs]

Yes I know that was the bill of goods some were sold. In particular the loading of hollow base wadcutters backwards as a make shift hollow point when the duty load of the day was a 158 gr RNL bullet. The biggest problem with that was the best one could expect for penetration was maybe six inches. And they really sucked at reloading from a speed loader, BTW.

Actually, I know this, from doing my own ballistics tests, with wadcutters. DNK what you were using as bullet stop, but those .38 Special wadcutters we used got better than 6 inches. Of course, this is actual testing, VS what somebody heard, off the internet, so what do I know?

 

[jdh]

Actually, I know this, from doing my own ballistics tests, with wadcutters. DNK what you were using as bullet stop, but those .38 Special wadcutters we used got better than 6 inches. Of course, this is actual testing, VS what somebody heard, off the internet, so what do I know?

Hollow base wad cutters loaded backwards at 850 to 900 fps into gallon water jugs. Any faster they blew up. Any slower they were inconsistent and unpredictable. Remember what these bullets were meant for. Since none of us had a HBWC mold we had to use store bought which tended to have been cast with a soft lead alloy.

BUT, if we cast double ended wad cutters out of a hard alloy so they could be pushed fast, wad cutters don't typically come in a gas check version, they would penetrate 2 maybe 3 jugs but when recovered they looked good enough to load again.

 

[Dibbs]

Apparently we were using cheap, soft lead, in these wadcutters, because this stuff would get pushed out of shape fairly easy. We were just looking for cheap practice ammo, nothing particularly special.

 

[jski]

Just finished listening to this 2017 posting and, at the end, he brings up whether Dirty Harry actually shot 44 Magnums. It occurs at 12:40 in the video.

The question lives on. Yet to be answered.

 

[CajunBass]

I loaded some 38 HBWC's backwards, many years ago. I don't know how fast they were, but they would blow a hole in a bank of red Virginia clay, that you could put your fist into. (Out of a 4" Model 19) It was good to know, just in case I was ever attacked by a bank of red Virginia clay.

I like Magnum Force best of all the DH movies.

 

[Grizzly2]

I loaded some 38 HBWC's backwards, many years ago. I don't know how fast they were, but they would blow a hole in a bank of red Virginia clay, that you could put your fist into. (Out of a 4" Model 19) It was good to know, just in case I was ever attacked by a bank of red Virginia clay.

I like Magnum Force best of all the DH movies.

I did the same thing with the same gun into Illinois mud. Occasionally you could see they would hit the target paper at 25 yards sideways.

By the late '70s it was nearly impossible to find a 6 1/2 model 29. I went with a friend looking for one and he had to settle for a nickled 57 that came in one of those nice wooden boxes back then.

 

[Charlie98]

Now before you clever ones go pointin’ out that Det. Callahan worked SFPD,

Interesting to note, having nothing to do directly with the OP, is... as far as the .41 thing goes, the SFPD was one of the actual adoptees of the .41 in the Model 58.

As far as his 'light Special' comment, what I think he meant was 'light Magnum,' not necessarily a lighter Special load, which makes no sense at all. But, as someone said... it's Hollywood.

 

[Bill M.]

It is scripted dialog. Not a scientific article. How many of us use complete names or descriptions when talking to friends about a subject that we both have a lot of knowledge of? The director is trying to make it sound realistic. He probably used light loads for competition and practice. He probably loaded full loads for "blowing heads clean off".

 

[Charlie98]

All I know is after reading all of this, now I want a Smith and Wesson Model 29 like Harry Callahan's.

Then you will also need the de rigueur Original Dirty Harry Shoulder Holster... Initially produced by Cathey Enterprises, but I think still available. I had one, for a while, for my 6" Model 57... it actually is a very good holster...

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

All I know is after reading all of this, now I want a Smith and Wesson Model 29 like Harry Callahan's.
View attachment 982096

Yep, at the time a lot of us did...

 

[375supermag]

I read it, and I still don’t know nor do I really care.

But...you must care because it's Dirty Harry, Clint Eastwood and Hollyweird and guns and stuff.
Full disclosure...I don't really care either.
It's just a movie...

 

[Constrictor]

All I know is after reading all of this, now I want a Smith and Wesson Model 29 like Harry Callahan's.
View attachment 982096

You mean you don't already have at least 3 model 29s? Shame shame.

 

[pairof44sp]

Yes I know that was the bill of goods some were sold. In particular the loading of hollow base wadcutters backwards as a make shift hollow point when the duty load of the day was a 158 gr RNL bullet. The biggest problem with that was the best one could expect for penetration was maybe six inches. And they really sucked at reloading from a speed loader, BTW.

One day I’m going to get a gel block and a camera and I’m going to empty out this cylinder, and that’s when you better pray that you were right.

Because if I get a whole fairy ring of shrooms somewhere deep inside block number two, you’ll be hearing about it buster

 

[CajunBass]

You mean you don't already have at least 3 model 29s? Shame shame.

Well, I have to admit that I don't have one either. I've owned three or four over the years, but always sold them off for something else.

What I do have now is a Model 624 (no dash) with a 4" barrel. I DO shoot "light specials" in it.

 

[jdh]

One day I’m going to get a gel block and a camera and I’m going to empty out this cylinder, and that’s when you better pray that you were right.

Because if I get a whole fairy ring of shrooms somewhere deep inside block number two, you’ll be hearing about it buster

View attachment 982659

Enhance your calm!

I know I’m right because I was the only one in my group with a loader set up to load 38 wad cutters. I told you the results we got. I didn’t think it necessary to include the YMMV disclaimer.

oh, and I did say we used gallon water jugs, not gel blocks if you want to keep it apples to apples. But, what every makes you happy.

 

[Constrictor]

This 29-3 followed me home from the gun show this morning to join the family.

 

[pairof44sp]

I loaded some 38 HBWC's backwards, many years ago. I don't know how fast they were, but they would blow a hole in a bank of red Virginia clay, that you could put your fist into. (Out of a 4" Model 19) It was good to know, just in case I was ever attacked by a bank of red Virginia clay.

I like Magnum Force best of all the DH movies.

Enhance your calm!

I know I’m right because I was the only one in my group with a loader set up to load 38 wad cutters. I told you the results we got. I didn’t think it necessary to include the YMMV disclaimer.

oh, and I did say we used gallon water jugs, not gel blocks if you want to keep it apples to apples. But, what every makes you happy.

Revolver Aficionado Sam of YouTube says the same thing. Devastation for a few inches with one-jug penetration.
Yup He also uses water jugs. Behind baloney. But with only 3.3 TItegroup. And a 8-9 hardness hbwc

I’m waiting to see what a hard wc with serious charge of powder will do

The hbwc controversy is really heating up in 2021

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Revolver Aficionado Sam of YouTube says the same thing. Devastation for a few inches with one-jug penetration.
Yup He also uses water jugs. Behind baloney. But with only 3.3 TItegroup. And a 8-9 hardness hbwc

I’m waiting to see what a hard wc with serious charge of powder will do

The hbwc controversy is really heating up in 2021

I still prefer 145/148gr DEWCs at close to +P in a .38 over HBWCs turned backwards. Better still, a 180/200 LFN at 750-850fps. depending on your barrel length.

 

[pairof44sp]

I still prefer 145/148gr DEWCs at close to +P in a .38 over HBWCs turned backwards. Better still, a 180/200 LFN at 750-850fps. depending on your barrel length.

Right on. The booger-lubed bullets!



a pleasure to load

148 dewc’s, ribbed for pleasure?

 

[Hal]

Back in the late 1970s I worked in a paint store that had an alley behind it & a set of rail road tracks along the alley.
The track bed was a haven for rats. Big ones. Hundreds of them.
Every time we got a semi in of paint or other stuff, I'd take my Sheridan Blue Streak out back with me & shoot rats while we were unloading the truck.

I got to play around with all kinds of different bullet configurations since the .20 cal/5mm pellets had a round nose with a shoulder & a skirted base.
I could cut the nose part off and make a wad cutter, I could shave he nose into a point, I could load them in the rifle backwards - like a hollow base wadcutter.
I could field test them on the rats too & see what worked.

Unmodified worked well. So did the sharp point.
Flat - wadcutter style didn't do all that well.
Backwards - like a WC loaded backwards - was terrible.
It was pretty cruel too since it just wounded the rat.
Wounded rats don't die - they get eaten by the other rats, usually while they are still alive.

I can see why none of the big three ever loaded WC backwards and/or DEWC as a defensive load.
They look like they would be devastating, but, they probably don't work at all.

 

[Paul R Zartman]

Silly boys....

 

[Palladan44]

The "light special" im assuming is referring to 44 special loads.... But a clear and very recognizable sonic boom comes at the end of each report...the boom, then the crack of the whip sound. As far as I know, 44 special is entirely sub sonic. So theres that..

Dont know when if ever any magnum loads have been referred to as the "light specials"...
And ones that have less recoil than a 357 Magnum with wadcutters?? Hmm.

My version of the "Dirty Harry" load is a 240 grain hardcast LSWC under 20 gr. of 2400. It kicks like it, it smokes just like it with the blue lubricant I use... it doesnt have muzzle flash like Dirty Harrys load in the movies either. It has just the right deep bass ka booom muzzle blast with the breaking of the sound barrier whip crack. (H110 or WW296 loads are too flashy out of a 6 1/2" M29, and I dont recall much Muzzle flash in any of the several movies, even in low light conditions)

In my opinion as a LEO back in the 70s youd been better off with a model 27 or 28 with 357 Magnums than a Model 29 loaded up with 44 Specials.... So.
Im thinking that Inspector Callahan's load might be just what I described....a lighter end 44 Magnum loading..... we will never know. It fits the profile.

This is a great discussion by the way.

 

[jdh]

In my opinion as a LEO back in the 70s youd been better off with a model 27 or 28 with 357 Magnums than a Model 29 loaded up with 44 Specials

I went the middle route. A model 57 with the 215 grain LSWC until the 175 Silvertips became readily available.