Discouraged--squib on first magazine of reloads

[TamThompson]

I was so happy that I cranked out my first batch of reloads with my new Dillon Square Deal B press that I made 200 of them. .45acp, 230gr. FMJ RN and FP, 8.3 grains of Blue Dot.

Then I took them to the range today, and on the tenth shot my Glock went "Click". I didn't hear a pop, but I had on double ear protection. The next round wouldn't chamber--slide was back about 1/3" from flush with the receiver. I seem to also remember having to eject a spent shell, and thinking that was odd.

Thank God I had sense enough not to force anything or pull the trigger. After repeated tries to rack failed, I replaced the mag with more reloads.

Same thing.

I unloaded and field-stripped. The recoil spring was not seated properly, so I fixed it, reassembled, and loaded with factory ammo.

Same problem.

I field-stripped it again, and this time I took out the barrel and had a look.

Bullet stuck in barrel.

I am so very glad that bullet lodged shallowly enough to prevent a new round from chambering, AND that I didn't fire the gun!!!

I guess in the future I will have to:

1. Weigh all reloads when done to make sure they're the same.
2. If I interrupt the reloading process and have to start a cartridge at the gun powder station, make damned sure it gets the load it's supposed to have, no more and no less.
3. If the gun EVER goes 'click' instead of boom, treat it as a potential squib situation and check the barrel for an obstruction.

Other suggestions? This really scared me, since it happened on the very first 10 reloads I ever made.

 

[mtnbkr]

I wouldn't bother with number 1. There's enough variation in case and bullet weight to drive you batty. I have seen as much as 1 full grain difference in bullets. How will you know if that 1 grain is bullet, case, or powder?

The best thing you can do is not load 200 rounds your first time out. Load 5, 10, 20, or so and make sure your process is down and you like the load. THEN, crank out 200.

You can't trust those 200 you have now. Get a bullet puller and pull the lot.

Chris

 

[Black Snowman]

This is why I recommend people start on a single stage Even as an experianced reloader I ran into issues when I got my 1st progressive.

Always check in each case to see that the powder dropped. Weight each round is worthless for determining powder charges due the the variences in brass, bullet, and even primer weight quickly over shadow the miniscule weight of the powder.

It's just part of the learning experiance and can happen to the best of us. Just be careful and you'll work out your quality control procedures and be cranking out the good stuff for a long time to come.

Just be glad you didn't grab the wrong powder like I recently did. You want a real scare. Check this out. This bonehead mistake was made with over 5 years and 10,000 rounds of reloading experiance.

 

[Steve in PA]

Before I seat the bullets, all cases are sitting in a loading try, like the one that comes with the RCBS kit. I scan each one to make sure there is powder in each.....then finish reloading.

 

[Sheldon]

Try to look into every case as you are placing the bullet onto the case under the seater die and give a good visual to be sure there is powder in the case. I have good lighting over my loader to help with this. You must have short stroked the handle to have not dropped powder into a case on the SDB press........it can happen for any number of reasons......just be aware of when it happens and take care of it when it does. If something breaks your rhythm while reloading you need to really pay attention to what the status is of everything going on with your press......don't get into so much of a rhythm that you start to ingore what you see......I did that once and..........

I had a double charge in one of my 45 ACP cases. The brass failed and took out my magazine. The pistol was a Colt Gold Cup and did not seem to suffer any damage from the experience. There seems to a few stories floating around now of the HK USP pistols having the same thing happen to them and having the frames split. Being careful is all you can do.

 

[Zak Smith]

I've loaded about 10,000 rounds on SDB's. The powder measure will fail to charge a case when:

1. it's empty (duh) or obstructed (never happened to me),
2. the fail-safe transfer rod is not connected to the bottom of the press, or
3. the fail-safe transfer rod's spring-tensioned thumbscrew on the bottom is loose.

Besodes once when the thumbscrew got loose, I've never had my SDB fail to charge a case. It's a very good idea to look inside each case before you place the bullet.

-z

 

[Cortland]

I got rid of my Dillon 550B primarily for the defeciencies of the powder system (although it was more of an ease of use than a functionality thing with me). Anyway, one thing that's certain to cause squib loads (and not necessarily on every round, which can make it tricky to diagnose) is that the plastic wingnut on the failsafe rod not being screwed far enough up. This keeps the measure from properly resetting.

And as others have said weighing the final cartridge won't tell you anything.

I agree that starting off with a single stage is probably a good idea, but if you do start off with a progressive (not necessarily a bad thing) I think something with provisions for a powder checker (like a Hornady LnL AP) is a very good idea. Although I'm sure you're SDB will be fine once you figure out what happened. I agree with everyone else--it was probably the failsafe rod.

It's been my experience (ummm... I mean second-hand experience) that totally squib loads (i.e., no powder, just primer) won't push bullets far enough to allow subsequent rounds to chamber completely -- a good thing!

 

[ThreadKiller]

Don't let it get you down Tam. This is part of the learning process. You have the option of running one case at a time through the SDB until you get more comfortable with it.

As has been stated previously just look inside the case before you put the bullet on top of it.

Single stage presses are simpler obviously, but they're so damn slow!

It'll get better.

Tim

 

[Intune]

Tam, I have a goose-neck desk lamp that looks down upon station 3 (bullet seating, upper left) THIS is the critical juncture in the Dillon SD progressive. Your left hand will reach for a new bullet to seat in #3
while your right reaches for a new case for #1 position. Focus your attention on the #3 spot. #1 will take care of itself, you can't really put it in the shellplate wrong. Right? #3 however is the spot where you need to be looking at the powder charge and start the bullet on its way to seating. Positions 2 (prime/powder) & 4 (crimp) are invisible processes... more feel. #3 is your ticket to good, reliable, safe loads. After you're done setting up dies, throws, seating etc., put all the pins back in and start from station #1. You won't hurt that case by resizing again. I hope this helps.

p.s., pay no attention to the # (666) of posts this makes, I'm really trying to help! redrum, redrum, redrum...

 

[g56]

With that amount of powder in the case you should be able to see it as you put the bullet onto the case, make a habit of looking at the case when you put the bullet in place and there won't be any surprises!

I'm not sure what problems Cortland is talking about in the Dillon Powder Measure, I've loaded right around 40,000 rounds on my 550 and I have never had the powder measure stick or fail to dispense powder.

 

[Rico567]

I have used several progressive machines, and have had no problems with powder charging, all this over a period of over 20 years. I am not bragging here, like everyone else, I'm just trying to better understand what's going on and what I can do as a reloader to make what I'm doing safer and more reliable.

Given that we're talking about the Dillon powder charging system here (I use the XL650, but I think that the "fail-safe" bar system is used on all the Dillon models of recent manufacture), I will confine my remarks to that system. I cannot see how it's possible to get the squib/double charge condition if the following procedures are followed:

1) When setting up the press, be sure you have followed the directions for adjusting the "fail-safe" bar. I didn't find this particularly intuitive, so I made sure (with no powder in the measure, obviously) that when I was done that the powder charge bar did exactly what the instructions in the Dillon manual said it had to do (go to its extreme travel when the handle was in its full down position), and did it consistently. This posting also assumes that you are using the correct charge bar (pistol or rifle), once again set up according to Dillon's instructions. I just got two measures and keep one set up for each so I don't have to switch bars.

2) Always (always, always) be sure that you use a complete press stroke, both on the downstroke and the upstroke. This is an essential habit to develop when using ANY progressive machine, as far as I can tell. As its name implies, I can't see how the "fail-safe bar" can possibly fail to drop the powder charge as set if the handlle is fully stroked.

3) Don't try to push your speed beyond a certain level. I believe that there is a natural tendency to try to match or even exceed the published figures for production of a particular machine, or competing machines. I think this is a great big mistake, and that a lot of mis-reloaded ammo on progressive presses comes from people who are just going TOO FAST.

I think there are other things that may come into play here, like making sure your press has a very solid mount, but I've never had any personal problems with that. Naturally, this post does not attempt to deal with the variations in charging induced by the use of a particular type of powder. The fact is that some powders meter through measures better than others, and that's that. I can only tell you that my weighing of the charges thrown with the Dillon measure indicates that it is extremely accurate, at least with the limited selection of powders I've used (Clays and 700-X in pistol, 748, H335 and Benchmark in rifle). I can only imagine that this accuracy would drop off with the longer stick powders like 4831, just like it does with my other measures.

If you get stuck, CONTACT DILLON. I've noticed on several forums a tendency for reloaders who are having problems to be reluctant to call the manufacturer. I have always been delighted with the suppport I've received from any manufacturer I've ever called (Dillon, Lee, RCBS, MEC); I only wish it were this good for all products. And keep in mind that even if you didn't buy your SDB new, it's still covered by Dillon's warranty, and they WILL support it.

 

[TamThompson]

Thanks, y'all!
I'll check the plastic wing-nut and probably tighten it. When I made those reloads, I did weigh out about 20 powder loads before I charged any shells, and the last 6 were very consistent to 1/10 grain.

I think the problem happened because I was learning as I went, and at first I was having a primer seating problem, so I ran 10 cases through and JUST primered them, no powder or bullets. Then, I put those cases back in the machine and charged and bulleted them. I'll bet some of them didn't get powder.

Until I can get me a goose-neck light over station #3, I'll wear one of our lightweight Petzl headlights and visually check that station every time.

And you can bet if any guns I'm shooting ever go 'click', I'm checking the barrel--even in the middle of an IDPA match.

I really appreciate being taught a lesson the easy way, and I'm very grateful that all this involves is a visit to the gunsmith for a stuck bullet rather than to the ER.

 

[Papakeith]

gunsmith for a stuck bullet? Couldn't you simply place a dowel down the muzzle of the barrel, and tap it out?

 

[wingman]

Good advice here, start slow, load 5-10 rounds, fire those, see what you
think as to accuracy and function, write down each load in a log, type bullet,
powder, overall length(oal), remarks, good/bad.

Check your cases under a good light as someone suggested. Check wt again
after loading 10 cases. Be sure you clean your powder measure after a set
number of rounds.

Work in a calm setting no tv/kids, etc.

Another tip, fire only slow fire when learning reloading.

In time you will prefer your ammo over commerical.

 

[redneck2]

You answered your own question...

when you got out of rhythm, then trying to load the rounds

not that I'd know from personal experience or anything....

anyway, now if I stop for ANY reason, I pull all 4 rounds out, check them over and individually finish them from their appropriate station. Never fiddle, re-adjust, or change things when there are rounds in the press. You end up worrying about the settings and forget or skip a sequence, or double up.

In one way, I'd take issue (at least for myself) with the part about loading too fast. When I was first starting with my Dillon, I had another guy helping me and learning at the same time. He was so worried about overcharging a case that he wanted to weigh every single one and kept piddling and fiddling with the adjustment on the charge bar.

Then he had to check the crimp on every round. Ooops.....0005 too much crimp. Change the die setting. Ooops...too little...crank it back down.

Problem is, the charge is depended on consistant vibration to settle the next charge into the bar. When you change settings, you have to throw 3 or 4 times to get to a consistent reading. We kept screwing around dumping and weighing so much that we had 3 squibs in the first 50.

Take one single case completely thru the cycle until it's finished, then do another. When you've do 20 or so and have all the dies and measure set, it's time to go progressive

 

[go8dalejr]

This is the main reason I bought my 650 as I allready had a 550 when
I want to load a buttload of shells the only station I have to watch is seating. And it is easy for me to tell if a primer is inserted by feal. So my
whole attention is on the seating station and can concentrate on powder
level. I could buy a powder check as I have the extra station but I trust my eyes"for now".

I still have the 550 but only load large primers with it as I don't shoot as
much of them. And usually single stage it as I am out of practice.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Tam,

I don't know the intricacies of the Dillon press, but on my Hornady I have an RCBS powder check die that I would not do without. It has saved my bacon several times when I was not paying enough attention.

 

[Bernmart]

Exactly the same thing happened to me as to Tam Thompson, just this weekend, and I'm pretty much at the same spot on the learning curve as he is--within the first 1000 rounds of reloads. As in his case, the squib left the bullet close enough to the chamber that the next round couldn't feed, or I might have blown up my gun when I next pulled the trigger. As it is, I took my handy 8" dowel, borrowed a mallet from the range officer, and tapped it out. Two lessons: on the range end, stop shooting when something that feels unusual happens--like no recoil, or failure of the slide to cycle--and check things out carefully before resuming. On the loading end, I agree with the advice that when your rhythm is interrupted for any reason--loading primers, a primer that doesn't seat right, or weighing powder charges--be very careful to note where to begin again, or even pull everything out of the shellplate and start over.

As we teachers say--experience is a cruel teacher; first comes the test, then the lesson. Thanks to all the advice I've gotten on this forum and others, my lessons have for the most part been gentle ones.

 

[TamThompson]

Bern,
I'm a 'her', not a 'him.'

PapaKeith,
I could have if I'd had a dowel. I don't have any dowels. The woman who runs the gun range tried to pound it out with a metal rod and had no success. The next day, my gunsmith got it out at no charge. I've since ordered a squib rod from Brownell's to go with the nylon/copper mallet I already have for taking apart and putting back together my Ruger Mark 2.

Thank y'all for the tips!

 

[BigG]

No powder is not the only SNAFU possible. Every oncet in a while you get a dud primer. So, if gun fails to go BOOM, stop shooting and check bbl for obstruction. PLEASE!

 

[Papakeith]

Tam,
Ahh, I see. I was lucky enough that someone had suggested in a class I took that I purchase a dowel and put it in my range bag, "just in case". I wasn't even reloading at the time I put it in there. I was glad I had it when I experienced my first squib a couple of weeks ago. It kept me from having to cut my day short.
The best you can do is learn from the experience. I know that after my first squib, I now make sure that I look into each and every case while reloading. I swear, if anyone ever saw the rocking grove I get into while reloading, they would think I'm having a seziure of some sort. But, that rock allows me to look into the case before I seat a bullet. I seem to be adding steps as I go along as fail-safe operations so I don't have any more squibs. I have sections of the bench that are reserved for certain items. I have notes on the press, and on the cabinet behind the press. Stuff like; Powder hopper on?, when was the last charge you weighed?, it's not a race, etc. It helps me do things right.
Good luck, and happy reloading.

Keith

 

[Bernmart]

Oops!

 

[SDC]

You need to get into a "rythm" as you're reloading, and one of the things in my rythm is to check that the case is charged as I drop my bullet on top; as Intune said, the best thing for that is a good strong light set up on your bench, so you can SEE whether or not you've got a charged case. On my 550, I've also got a little magnetic mirror set up, so I can see directly down into the case.

 

[bigjim]

when I have a squib I don't shoot any more rounds from that batch. I just can't help wondering where that missing powder charge went.

 

[tex_n_cal]

Your load is 8.3 grains of powder so that IS enough to check on a digital scale, to find cartridges without powder. Cases will vary by 2-3 grains or so, bullets by 1 grain or so. Check the average loaded cartridge weight - if you find something light by 5 grains or more, it's a squib, or maybe at least suspect.

and bigjim has a good point, more of an issue with lighter charges - when weighing loaded cartridges, look for some that are obviously too heavy.