Divorce and Guns taken away

[rondog]

I think I'd definitely get a restraining order against the f.i.l., just to c.y.a. Also puts a negative onus on her side of the battle. As for your guns, find a trusted relative or friend to place them with, and get an itemized receipt to prove that they're not in your possession anymore.

A digital pocket voice recorder might not be a bad investment either, if the f.i.l. is prone to making stupid statements.

 

[Max C.]

He probably doesn't need to sell the guns. He just can't have them in his place of residence or on his person. Possession and ownership are not the same in the law. For example, in stolen property cases, if someone purchases stolen goods they most certainly possessed the object but they never never owned it.

"The firearms may be delivered to a third party for storage such as paternal grand parent."

Basically he just needs to give them to someone else who doesn't live within walking distance.

That said, one way to protect the guns (though it seems unlikely they'd be awarded to her) would be to sell them and then the court would only award a portion or their whole value but there can be other sticky things that come from that. Depending on your state's law, that could be illegal... soooo

Talk to your lawyer, not the forum haha.

 

[copper4262]

Sad situation - your getting good advice here-
Best thing to do is follow the order- talk with your lawyer about your states civil laws regarding property in a marrige- you need to find out if you can "sell" the guns to a friend- becareful cause you might need proof of the sale and the amounts- be prepared to give something up in order to keep your guns- if you can get away with it "sell" them - if not cut your losses and be prepaired to give her half-
As far as not losing the permenant right to own guns- you need toi stay away from her as much as possible - you don't want any sort of confrontation with her- it will get twisted around against you- move out- don't give her a reason to scream domestic violence- all it takes is an accusatuon- she doesn't actually need to be hurt or in danger for the courts to find you guilty - If you are even accused of violence u can kiss your guns and more importantly your kids good-bye

A few months ago I had a man bring in his rather large collection of guns in to the dept. I currently work for- I had to log in and secure 20years worth of family heirlooms and prized possessions- this man turned in ancient rifles from his grandfathers, band new AR's, and everything else in between- there had been some threats made and the judge ordered he turn them in - within a few days the couple was breaking the restraining order and seeing each other again- of course it wasn't long before another accusation was made - I don't know if he hurt her or not- or even if he would- But I do know that now he will never legally own a gun - and the mans not even 40yrs old

So be very very careful- don't give her a reason to want your guns- -dont give her a reason to take them-

As far as her father goes- if he's made any recent threats etc you need to report him and get a restraining order- if nothing recent then tread lightly until the courts have run their course and the dust settles - you can always deal with that issue later

Most important - GET A LAWYER!

 

[Cosmoline]

Break the bank and get a lawyer

This area of law in particular has many, many local variations in custom and practice. What works well in one jurisdiction before one set of judges will fail in another. If this is a contested matter, and it sure sounds like it is, you are much better off getting a local lawyer who has experience in domestic disputes.

 

[627PCFan]

How can the judge legally remove his second amendment rights without a conviction in a court of law?

 

[rbernie]

How can the judge legally remove his second amendment rights without a conviction in a court of law?

The answer is posted in post #2 - the Restraining order (RO) acts as the lever by which the RKBA is suspended.

Break the bank and get a lawyer

This area of law in particular has many, many local variations in custom and practice. What works well in one jurisdiction before one set of judges will fail in another. If this is a contested matter, and it sure sounds like it is, you are much better off getting a local lawyer who has experience in domestic disputes.

And this is the answer. You cannot rely upon Internet advice in this matter.

You just can't.

 

[lipadj46]

Divorces are a bitch. My ex took my dog away, yes my effin' dog I raised from a puppy. I bought another though and got a new better not crazy wife. My ex was Jewish and Peurto Rican and a lawyer and let me tell you that can be a nasty combination (no offense to any jewish puerto rican lawyers out there).

Best advice from someone who has been there is get a good lawyer, pay the money and get the eff out. Don't dwell on the money figure it as being a fee to get your life back.

 

[offthepaper]

Good Advice:

Like others have said, just let it go and let it pass quietly.

Yeah...don't be hiding a gun or something like that. That'll be playing right into you "opponent's" hands.

Walk the straight and narrow until this thing is done.

Therefor the O.P. cannot have a firearm, his own, one borrowed, one rented, nothing.

This may be seen as right or wrong, but it doesn't change the circumstances:

No guns whatsoever, until the order is lifted.

You want the judge to have no doubt you can follow instructions and this will help when discussing what is best for the kids future.

Take a breath, follow the court order, finish divorce proceedings

I'd say comply with the order, get a good lawyer, and get a divorce ASAP. It may get worse if you don't just get it over with, friend.

Don't go hunting and use someone else's gun as MP7 thought to ask about. You'd be in violation of the court order and in some really deep do-do. Getting your guns back would be much more difficult.

I think I'd definitely get a restraining order against the f.i.l., just to c.y.a.

Most important - GET A LAWYER!

Bad Advice:

I’m not sure what’s legal now that this has already started but I’d have “sold” them all to a friend already, $1 sounds fair to me.

However if I had my own divorce to go through again, I'd use some of the same dirty tricks on her that my first wife used on me.

How can the judge legally remove his second amendment rights without a conviction in a court of law?

maybe not right, but this happens many, many times every day in court rooms across the country. Obey the court orders. Remember cooler heads will come out on top in the end.

Divorces are at very least difficult. It's sometimes hard to picture your life ever being the same, but it will be or better down the road. Unless........you make a total mess by not keeping your cool and following court orders. The failure to follow those orders can have negetive effects on yourself that could follow you for the rest of your life. Guns and divorces are a tricky mix. If the ex decides she wants to burn you, you may be amazed at how easy it is for her to do it. A simple accusation, trumped up charges supported by false witness (I know this one first hand).
Keep it cool, keep it legal.
Again, good luck.

 

[Quoheleth]

Whether you sell, "sell," or put the guns into temporary possession of a friend or family member I might suggest:
- recording each & every serial number
- photographing each gun, left side & right side along with distinguishing marks/features
- call your insurance agent and take out a rider on those guns that are not under your roof (best be all of 'em!), just in case the unthinkable happens
- especially if it's a temporary possession thing, have your friend sign a receipt for holding the guns so that if something happens, you have a document that they were in his possession.

All usual caveats (IINAL, etc....) apply here. But this advice was given to me anytime I loan personal items to friends/neighbors for extended length of time (i.e., more than a day or two).

Q

 

[mljdeckard]

You want justice? go to a brothel. You want to get sc*****? Go to court.

As the othes have said it's temporary. You may not like it, but the end truth is, judges have immunity from all actions they impose in the course of their duties. Bite your tongue, nod your head, wait for the edict. It will fade in significance in a few years.

 

[Phatty]

Unless the judge is a complete jerk (possible) it should be fairly easy and routine, if represented by an attorney, to carve out an exception in the judge's order to allow you to participate in the hunting season. You would simply file a motion requesting that the judge modify his previous order to allow you to possess firearms for the purpose of hunting when not in the presence of your children.

 

[scottaschultz]

A little off topic, but...

How can the judge legally remove his second amendment rights without a conviction in a court of law?

While The Constitution grants you many personal freedoms, the laws are written to (theoretically) safeguard society as a whole. I am sure you will agree that not every citizen of these United States should be able to carry a lethal weapon. When people go to prison for certain crimes or are committed to mental institutions, they give up some of their freedoms.

This is just like that 1st Amendment argument that says you can't yell, "MOVIE!!!" in a crowded firehouse... or something like that.

No, the OP hasn't been convicted of a crime, but the judge is responsible for safeguarding society and sometimes this trumps The Constitution. But that is also why there are cases in courts every day questioning the constitutionality of certain actions by courts.

Scott

 

[RobNDenver]

Burl, I am sorry that you are going through this, and reiterate what nearly every one on this board has said.

It's a temporary problem, unless you somehow get tagged for Domestic Violence. So keep yourself out of situations where you can be attacked and defend yourself, since you know that your unhinged wife and family will be looking to provoke a response from you and use it against you. You need to be sure that your divorce attorney is giving you the very best advice. That means that if you don't have a lawyer, you find a specialist in domestic relations and listen carefully to his counsel. Keep a bound book or other journal that describes any misconduct, threats, or misrepresentation made by your spouse, her friends or family in chronological order.

If your lawyer says report the threat by the FIL, then do so in as matter of fact a way that you can. Show local law enforcement that you are a calm and reasonable person, and if your wife or FIL is volatile and reacts when contacted by the police even better for you. Show up at the station in a pair of slacks and an sport shirt, make sure that the police view you as a good guy. Enough of them have been through this, that they will empathize with you if you show that you are more like them and the wife is not a sympathetic figure.

Expect that the kids will report everything that happens at your house, from second hand smoke to an occasional beer you might drink. Expect that your ex will attempt to magnify your conduct, and trivialize her shortcomings. So don't give her anything to hang her hat on or mischaracterize to the court.

Good luck man. This will pass.

 

[RP88]

you might as well break the bank with a lawyer now in order to get your guns back and your ex-wife out of your face than to have to break the bank with a lawyer later after you have already been abused by the system and don't have your guns or any of your other stuff, for that matter.

Honestly, either way you look at it: you're gonna have to break the bank. Might as well do it now before the real damage is done. At least, that is how I look at it.

 

[HOME DEPOT GEORGE]

I'm having a similar problem with a NJ order From 12 years ago. Nj is 1 of 2 states that issues FRO's never to go away without consent or lawyer involvement. This is a link I found intreresting and disturbing at the same time http://www.fathermag.com/0901/divorce_restraining_order/

 

[Bruno2]

As a resident of the great state of Oklahoma we have similar gun laws as they do down in Tx . The advice being given from people stating to sell the guns to a friend for an undisclosed amount of money is definitely worth asking your lawyer about . This will in turn kill two birds with one stone : 1 being rid of the posession part and 2 keeping the ex from getting her half of a gun collection that doesnt mean anything to her other than trying to hurt you . In our states their are NO GUN REGISTRATION LAWS other than the initial purchase from an FFL dealer . Who I sell my guns to and what guns I buy cash and carry are nobodies business but MINE . I would hold my cards about what guns I own and make her attorney provide a list of the guns that she thinks you own (my wife couldnt begin to make a list ). A receipt would be nice , but , make individual receipts for every gun and dont show any that are not requested . We have more freedom of firearms in our states than just about any of the others and I would use it to my advantage . take a pass on the upland birds and waterfowl this season until the injunction gets removed . I would even ask my attorney if I were a lifetime combination holder if I could show the season I was forced to forfeit could be recovered in the divorce settlement . I am sure that if you are going through a divorce that you already have an attorney . Make him work for his money b/c they charge and arm and a leg and it is" because of them that we need them".

 

[Old Fuff]

Burl:

Many of the injunctions issued at the time a divorce petition is filed forbid either party from selling assets, withdrawing money from bank accounts, and that sort of thing. Before you sell anything you’d better ask an attorney exactly what you can and can’t do. Failing that, read ALL OF THE FINE PRINT in the paperwork you have been served or otherwise received.

Note that the court’s order gave you permission to let certain relatives store your firearms, but said nothing that would allow you to sell them.

At some point both parties will submit lists of property, and both can – either individually or through an attorney – challenge the other party’s list concerning what is or isn’t on them. If your accounting doesn’t include the guns, and that point is challenged you’d better to be able to produce them.

There is no faster way to turn a judge against you then to start playing games!

 

[Art Eatman]

"What is the best course of action, that does not involve breaking the bank with attorney fees, to get my guns back?"

From the other part of the OP, the guns aren't gone or lost; it's just that the use is denied until after the divorce.

Any motion to gain access for hunting will ignite furor and counter-motions to deny. Best to let sleeping dogs snore. Barking Is Bad.

I'd sit tight and keep my mouth and billfold shut to the greatest extent possible until the divorce is final. When not at work I'd either be at home or at a public library. Minimize opportunities for anybody to claim anything. Right now, that's a more important form of self defense than a CHL ever thought of being. Hey, there'll be hunting seasons in 2010; really there will.

 

[WingRider]

Burl,
Sorry to hear of your situation.+1 to the advice to stay cool and get thru the divorce. Concentrate on the kids, this will effect them more than you being temporarily without your guns.
Just an aside, I'm presently splitting up with my wife. Amicably.Even gave her a S&W 4006 to keep her safe(with the stipulation I get it back if/when she doesn't want it).
Hang in there

 

[Burl]

Lots of great replies here! Rest assured I have already surrendered the guns to my mother's house and have no intention of violating the court order as my children are far too important. The frustrating thing is that I just got my CHL in the mail about a week ago, after a 6 month wait, because of the back-log. Hopefully my wife doesn't try to get an injunction against fishing hooks.
The comment from her father was about 9 years ago right before we got married. I should have known then that the family had issues. I am not sure the threat would be taken seriously now but it was made all the same.
I am trying to take The High Road in relation to my wife and just do as the court instructs me so I can get this thing over with as quickly as possible.


Thanks for all the input!

Mike Ives

 

[justice4all]

I, for one, think that the judge exceeded his authority when he issued the order. Some posters above have stated that the judge is somehow not bound by the Constitution, but that is not true. The judge couldn't legally order someone to stop going to a certain church, or to stop reading certain books. This situation is analogous.

 

[leadcounsel]

Follow the order to the letter now.

Later, when it's over, work in the legal system to fight these laws that abuse gun owners. These laws include restraining orders, misdemeanor domestic violence, and divorce injunctions. These are DESIGNED by anti-gun groups as an end-run around our 2A rights and designed to strip mainly men of gun ownership, which strips families of abilities to defend themselves and lowers gun owership over generations.

Educate others. Vote. Rally.

 

[kurtmax]

This is legal in most states. Like an earlier poster said there should be a hearing very soon where you and your lawyer can oppose the firearms restrictions.

As for losing firearms in a divorce case... prenups people.. prenups. People getting married without prenups are crazy.

Or better yet, don't get married. At least in a legal sense.

 

[ManBearPig]

Everyone on here keeps saying "be prepared to give her half". Did you have a prenup? If not, then I guess they'd be right. I think it would be crazy to get married without one.

My home is paid off, I make a good income, and keep my bank account padded...I'd never ever ever marry without a prenup that says what I bring into the relationship is mine (meaning my house, my income, my bank account, my portfolio) and what she brings into the relationship is hers...with bank accounts and credit cards kept seperately. Stone cold solid; no way she's taking half as well as my house with that.

But anyway, I was just curious if you had gotten a prenup so as to keep her from taking half of your stuff...like the value of your firearms.

 

[outdoors]

your lucky u can give them to someone--where i live-the guns could be siezed and destroyed--i wish u the best of luck and hope that if u have any children-i pray you are more than a paycheck and week-end visitor to them.

As far as any constitution goes-forget it-this is family court-there is none


good luck