Do your tactics change with its freezing outside?

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MikePGS

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Yesterday I went to get some gas at around 11:00 p.m. and it was absolutely freezing outside. So cold that I couldn't move my fingers and it got me to thinking about what would happen if someone tried to assault/rob/whatever me at that exact moment. If i had a gun on me (still no pistol or CCW, hopefully that will change soon) not sure how easily i would be able to manipulate the controls, and if I had gloves on, no so sure the finger would go into the guard easily enough to allow me to pull the trigger as competently as I'd want to. Does what you carry change when it gets cold out? Also I did notice that it would be an oppourtune time to carry a large frame revolver or full-size gun since I could probably conceal a lot better under a coat (I'm planning on getting an M&P 9mm c, but now I might get another gun for winter). Also what about ammunition? I've always read that a hollow point basically will act like a FMJ when encountering thick cloth and what not, would it be a better idea to just carry FMJ when theres a real possibility that the person assaulting me might be wearing a very thick coat?
 
with the right hollowpoints a winter coat shouldnt stop expansion. I wouldnt say any tactics changed for me but as I was chopping wood earlier today with heavy gloves on my plan would've been to throw the glove off my right hand. Then if necesssary I'd reach for my pistol carried IWB under my zipped up hoodie and t shirt. Yes it definitely makes it a little slower to draw but I can't be out in 8 degree weather in a t shirt.
 
wow the way you said it makes it sound like your planning something.
Click to expand...
You're right, I am planning on something. I'm planning on defending myself and my family if (god forbid) the time comes to do so. Not sure where you live, but in Michigan it gets COLD. One year the high was -7 degrees, and that wasn't even including the windchill factor.
 
Perhaps I'm naive, but I always assumed bad guys stayed inside during cold weather and long nights. In the DC area at least, it is the pleasant weather that encourages hoodlums to enjoy the outdoors.
 
Since your CCW ends up inside the outer layers of clothing, it remains warm. If you have to draw you pull off the glove on your drawing hand first. Might be worth including in your dry fire drills.

Trouble doesn't go away in the winter, it just moves inside.
 
I wear a pair of thin leather gloves I got from a police supply shop. They're thin enough that I can still manipulate my weapon and since they're leather they block the wind and help to hold in the body heat. I also tend to carry a larger weapon in the winter months because I can conceal it better, and I believe in carrying the biggest gun you can conceal.

At times when I can't conceal a larger weapon I carry a NAA Mini in 22 Magnum. Since it has no trigger guard it can easily be operated with gloves on.

If you're going to wear gloves, always wear the same pair and practice with them.

If you're going to wear a big overcoat that would add to the time required for you to draw your weapon, consider putting a smaller weapon (like the NAA) in your coat pocket on your weak side. That way you can just keep a hand in that pocket and buy yourself some time with it (by shooting through the coat from inside the pocket) if you need to.
 
Nomex flying gloves make great shooting gloves. They have leather on the palm side and nomex fabric on the back side. The leather part gives good grip and the fabric part is flexible and relatively warm. They are comfortable and provide decent dexterity. I wouldn't want to stand outside in 7 degrees for an extended time wearing these, but for a 2 minute walk though a parking lot they are warm enough. The military issues these in green, but you can also buy black ones that stand out less for normal attire.

--Stork
 
Just brainstorming here, but you could get gloves and then cut the trigger finger portion off. That finger would get cold quick tho if you're out for a while and can't keep it in your coat.

Other than that, thin leather gloves are available and some of them are marketed as shooting gloves. You'll give up insulation but you'll gain back tactile feeling.

I don't know if there are any handguns made this way, but you'll also see "enhanced triggerguards" for AR-15s by folks like Magpul that allow operation with gloves.
 
I just returned from a week in the Midwest with temperatures in the single digits. Saw five dozen cars in ditches due to icy roads.

I decided to take a .357 Mag J-Frame since I figured ankle carry and coat pocket carry would be faster than retrieving a gun from my usual IWB holster.

Also discovered my "high tech" thin gloves did not work in that kind of cold.
 
I generally don't wear gloves until it gets down below 0 ... but when I do they're something like these

15457B.jpg
 
In the past history of guns, I know of 2 made for just winter. The 30-40 craig, and the Nor' West Gun.

Both have large open trigger guards.

So a winter pistol might be found with a more open trigger guard.

Cold can have effects on a gun if it is cold enough, and if the gun gets cold,with the ammo.

In sub 0 temps some lubes get pretty sticky, like tar as well.

Something to consider.

Cold ammo will not produce the same pressure as it might on a nicer day to shoot.

I have never read hollow points will behave someother way in winter, when encountering a coat. I might guess they will begin to open and expand on the coat and enter a body bigger than normally, but I don't know that.

I commonly am out doors in what ever weather and as of late it has been sub 0. I tend to carry 2 guns, one a NAA mini loaded with .22 mags in my ft jeans pocket, and a Kimber CDP ProII in a horizontal shoulder rig by Alesii. So more or less these stay warm.

I have been in cold where keeping a gun warm means it will freeze and then I prefer a wheel gun, that can stay cold all the time. I never try to warm it with my body.

The same goes with a manual 35mm camera. A camera that will work no matter how cold it gets so long as you leave it stone cold.

Warming these devices will allow them to create water and freeze.

Zundfolge , has shown some pretty good winter mitts giving you nearly instant access to fingers.

The Mitts I use are custom made by me for play at -40 and below, and I can pick up dimes, open a screw driver blade on a Swiss Knife and or shoot/run a camera.

But these are not pretty go to town mitts.

Another pair of mitts I have are elk and wool in the trapper style, which look good in town, and can be thrown off, but I seldom use them unless I am driving team. These are big enough to hold a 'J' Frame LOL..

So yea if you are in winter wonderland some things need to change.

I can't comment on any ninja's as I don't believe that in New Hampshire there are any.
 
I might guess they will begin to open and expand on the coat and enter a body bigger than normally, but I don't know that.
Click to expand...

I'd expect the cavity to clog with coat material and prevent expansion.

Sounds like a job for the box o truth...
 
it never really gets cold in missouri so i usually go around in dads old navy jacket.it has a wool inside so its fine. i dont have problems other than my hands and sometimes my nose
 
Your mission (staying warm & alive when out & about) will drive your gear. Practice with different gloves, jackets, etc & figure out what works & what doesn't. For gloves you might try some of the thin WindStopper or Powerstretch fleece gloves. Not really warm but will keep the chill off & still allow you to do things like pull your keys out of your pockets.

If you had a big enough pair of mittens you could keep a J-Frame in each.:what:
 
Any kind of bullet may do any of a number of things under any circumstances. JHPs fail to expand, FMJs mushroom like crazy for no apparent reason. When you're talking about handguns, you're planning on using what has the highest likelihood most of the time. Having said that, I do hold a certain degree of confidence that my .45 has a proven track record whether it expands or not.

My dad told me once, "The only thing you can do with a pair of gloves on is wet your pants." We were roofing in December, and he was laughing at me trying to handle shingle nails.

I live in a winter kind of place, and I carry. It is an ongoing issue, whether or not to wear gloves. What I wind up doing most of the time, is keep gloves in the left pocket of my coat, but I only wear them when I really need to. Today, I was running the snow blower, and I needed them.When I start the truck and it's freezing, I will wear them until it warms up.

There are compromises. I have used gloves cut down to the second knuckle, I sometimes worry they make me look like a hobo of some kind. Maybe I'm overthinking it. The army issued me a pair of aviator gloves, I haven't tried them out yet, but they are green. (I've outgrown the phase in my life where I proudly make most of my wardrobe from either rock concerts or surplus stores.) They are designed for better dexterity. When I deploy, I will likely get some of the Wiley-x gloves with the padded knuckles, I don't yet know if they would wear as a civilian without looking very silly.

There have also been phases when I have misplaced my gloves for weeks or months at a time and just lived without them.
 
I'd expect the cavity to clog with coat material and prevent expansion.

Sounds like a job for the box o truth...
Click to expand...

In some of their penetration tests, they actually did one where they placed some heavy denim in front of the target. Some of the HP rounds did in fact fail to expand.
I forget which episode it was - but if you poke around, i'm sure you can find it.
 
Speaking of failure to expand due to (winter) clothing, I saw a magazine ad recently for a new line of ammo: Hornady Critical Defense. The ad makes claims like:
"Unaffected by thick and heavy clothing, including denim and leather." and
"Flex Tip® design is impervious to clothing and performs the same in all critical defense situations." and
"You may have never thought about the effects of fabric and clothing on the performance of personal defense ammo. But clothing — especially heavy clothing — has a lot to do with how the bullet expands upon impact.

It's a dirty little secret, but conventional hollow point bullets often experience tip clogging as the bullet passes through light and heavy clothing, which diminishes expansion and causes unreliable bullet performance."

Looks like they filled in the hollowpoint with something that will keep debris out of it, while somehow allowing it to expand when it impacts tissue. I wonder if that'll also help reduce over-penetration of walls.

Only thing is - its not really out yet. I think it is going to come next year. If its a success, I expect Speer and Winchester and others to upgrade their HPs as well.
 
In the past history of guns, I know of 2 made for just winter. The 30-40 craig, and the Nor' West Gun.

Both have large open trigger guards.
Click to expand...
I also have a Magpul winter trigger guard on my AR.

ZundDPMS.jpg


Works GREAT with gloves. I HIGHLY recommend it for anyone living in a colder climate.


On a side note, the gloves I posted are the same style as the ones I wear, but mine are wool with a Thinsulate lining (I just couldn't find a photo of mine).
 
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